450 12-string?

[joe cook]

Greetings,

I'd welcome any objective views / comments on the sound and playability of the mid-1960s 450 12-string solid body... I have a Fender XII and a Burns DoubleSix and am wondering how the 450 would compare and contrast?

Thanks for your comments...

Joe

[jdogric12]

It would have (as Rick 12's do) more bite and less shimmer.

[sloop_john_b]

I can't comment on the Burns, but the Rick is going to have a MUCH skinnier nut-width/string spacing than the XII and a better-sounding bridge pickup (for that typical jangle sound anyway). The XII, in my experience, has more of a lush sound to it, but falls short on the Byrds thing.

The body of the 450 is also quite diminutive - about half as thick as a Telecaster and smaller too.

[studiotwosession]

Ooo-wee!

[manta]

I see this topic has been off the shelf for a while but I just stumbled onto this YouTube vid by one of my favorite blues guys, John Mayall. He's been playing a flower power 450/12 for years:

[studiotwosession]

Cool footage. Had no idea he played one. Wouldn't mind having one of the later 450/12s.

[xpitt]

I see this topic has been off the shelf for a while but I just stumbled onto this YouTube vid by one of my favorite blues guys, John Mayall. He's been playing a flower power 450/12 for years:

...looks like he played over a Roland JC 120, heavy stuff

[guitman]

I've played a 450-12 for many years. I've used it for Power Pop when I was with Flamin' Groovies and played hard rock and blues on it with Loose Gravel and the thing is really versatile as well as being a beautiful piece of really clean design, a nice, light, neck-through maple plank. My main complaint is the same one I have for every Rick I've owned, I don't like lacquered fingerboards. The neck pickup sounds fat and jazzy and the bridge pickup has the usual bright, piercing, knife-edged treble that Rickenbacker toaster pickups are known for. I rewired my 450 for stereo and usually use it with 2 amps. I really like it for blues, a chore which it handles better than the 360-12 I had back in the '60s. I would like to try out some button pickups in the guitar since the toasters are a little low output for my taste but the guitar does sound great despite the low output pickups.

[collin]

I've played a 450-12 for many years. I've used it for Power Pop when I was with Flamin' Groovies and played hard rock and blues on it with Loose Gravel and the thing is really versatile as well as being a beautiful piece of really clean design, a nice, light, neck-through maple plank. My main complaint is the same one I have for every Rick I've owned, I don't like lacquered fingerboards. The neck pickup sounds fat and jazzy and the bridge pickup has the usual bright, piercing, knife-edged treble that Rickenbacker toaster pickups are known for. I rewired my 450 for stereo and usually use it with 2 amps. I really like it for blues, a chore which it handles better than the 360-12 I had back in the '60s. I would like to try out some button pickups in the guitar since the toasters are a little low output for my taste but the guitar does sound great despite the low output pickups.

Mike, great to see you on the RRF!

I'm a big fan of your work with The Charlatans (and also Flamin' Groovies), I'll need to check out Loose Gravel as well!

[242_foxtrot]

I have the Loose Gravel 45 "Frisco Band"/"Waiting In Line". Great single!

[guitman]

My rig in Flamin' Groovies: Twin Reverb and Dual Showman amps w/JBL speakers. Stereo guitars: Ric 450-12 w/toaster PUs, '54 Gretsch Country Club, Ric 360 w/button PUs & Bigsby B11 tailpiece.

[manta]

Hi Mike,

Great to hear you join this. "Take Me Back" has been a favorite of mine and I assume your 450 was the chime on that song. I really love seeing some of the YouTube clips of you with that '54 Gretsch. A true classic. I had a 450/6 in my youth, bought at least in part from seeing you play. Thanks for the insights and all the great music, especially blues.

[guitman]

There are 3 twelve strings on Take Me Back. Besides my 450, there is Chris Wilson's Gretsch 12 and Cyril's 360. I believe Cyril also recorded another very sparse overdub part on the 360-12, just a few notes here and there where he felt it needed a bit more. There's a whole lot of chime there with all those parts + a Mellotron played by Cyril or Cyril and Chris both, I forget which.