Getting a sound

[StevieDee]

I've got am 83 4003 it's an awesome looking bass but I just find it really hard to get a sound. I used it for some recording with a pleccie through a couple of sansamps into the desk and it sounded amazing but at rehearsals it just doesn't happen. I've recently changed from rotos to DR strings and a lighter gauge because I just found the bass hard to play but I reckon I might need heavier strings. I'm using a Genz Benz streamliner 900 but I struggle to get a cleanish sound and it seems a bit flappy (?) when I play with my fingers.

By contrast when I plug in my pre-eb Musicman it just sounds great, I've been playing musicman basses for over 20 years but I love the ricky sound and look. I'm going to persevere and hopefully it will fall into place but it's a frustrating thing!

[ricnbacker]

Not really understanding your issue....

are you not able to find a sound you like or not able to find any sound?

if you prefer the sound of MM's maybe thats your thing...

[StevieDee]

Just not getting a sound I like consistently. Got a great sound when recording but not quite cutting it when rehearsing and was wondering whether it was my technique (digging in too much) or the strings maybe too light. Just musing really to be honest I reckon I just need to play the bass a bit more and get used to it.

[geofio]

Hi stephen , George here the chap that purchased your sansamp, when you played my ric, i thought you were a very heavy player, that might be your problem, try and take the weight of a bit, i use Elixir strings and they feel good on the 4003 also it might be the way your ric has been set up, i noticed when you played my bass it was really rattling with your weight. i have my action low and i know how much pressure to use to get the best from it. i would ease off and see how that goes.

[antipodean]

Welcome Steve!

How would you define the sound you're after? How did you set your bass and treble tone up on your old two-band MM? A 4003 has a pretty wide tonal palette for a passive instrument, so we should be able to steer you in the right direction with just a little more info...

[ricnbacker]

Just not getting a sound I like consistently. Got a great sound when recording but not quite cutting it when rehearsing and was wondering whether it was my technique (digging in too much) or the strings maybe too light. Just musing really to be honest I reckon I just need to play the bass a bit more and get used to it.

I hear what you are saying now.

Funny, I find that to be my problem with all other bass's but my Ric.

I find if I play too hard I get a clicking sound like the strings are hitting the frets or something but it never affects the sound that comes out of the amp.

only once did I not like the sound of my Ric.....it was through a Mark Bass 1-15 amp. hated the amp with a passion could not find a decent sound.

[StevieDee]

Hi folks thanks for the replies.

George here the chap that purchased your sansamp, when you played my ric, i thought you were a very heavy player, that might be your problem, try and take the weight of a bit

Hi George yeah I remember playing your bass and worrying that your neighbours might be at the door! I've just worked with a really loud drummer for literally decades and just play accordingly. I'll think about raising the action and look at the elixirs. Clearly when using a pick, which I don't generally, it stops me hitting too hard.

Welcome Steve!
How would you define the sound you're after? How did you set your bass and treble tone up on your old two-band MM? A 4003 has a pretty wide tonal palette for a passive instrument, so we should be able to steer you in the right direction with just a little more info...

I suppose I'm aiming for that classic aggressive Rick tone, but not too trebley but I'd like to be able to dial in a smoother mellower sound when required.

Some pointers on tone settings would be really useful. The MMs are remarkably simply but the Rick is similar to say my Wal which took me a while to get my head around.

A combination of heavy handed playing and not getting the tone is the problem but hopefully the more I play it the more I'll get used to it. I suppose when your an old geezer like me and you're used to getting a specific result it hurts your brain when it doesn't quite work as you expect!

[antipodean]

Got the picture! Warning - a bit of a tome follows! Note that I am an eq-luddite, so there may be a lot you can do with your rig that I'm not going to touch on.

As you have an early 4003 you will have the sought-after "low resistance" Higain pickups (around 7-8 kohms rather than 12-13 kohms of more recent 4003 basses) and the (in)famous bass filter cap in the treble pickup circuit (assuming previous owner hasn't removed it or shorted it out). These are big contributors to the "classic" Rickenbacker sound. The less hot pickups provide a brighter and clearer tone. This cap has several impacts:

- Filters out a substantial band of bass frequencies produced by the treble pickup when your lead is plugged into the mono jack. The volume of the pickup is also reduced due to the missing band of frequencies;
- Shifts the phase of the treble pickup by 90 degrees. This results in less "comb filtering" when both pickups are engaged - fewer frequencies are cancelled out than would be the case without the cap.

So, in general the treble pickup sound a bit anaemic soloed (IMHO). You'd normally think this would be clank nirvana, but instead it sounds like a strat pickup located right next to the bridge. The benefit is that when both pickups are engaged, the thin and nasty sound from the treble pickup mixes nicely with the more mellow but still clear neck pickup. With all pots wide open and a heavy pick attack, you should be able to get a pretty bright sound with decent fundamental "boom".

To get the most organically aggressive tone out of your 4003, I believe you need to disengage the bass filter cap. This can be done by shorting the cap out of the circuit. I have a 4001 with a push-pull pot that enables me to choose whether the cap is in the circuit or not, and find the treble pickup without the cap is a bit of a monster. The cheat's way of circumventing the cap is to plug your mono lead into the rick-o-sound jack. This will give you an idea as to the possibilities - it's not a viable long-term fix. I find that I prefer the cap in (and both pickups selected) most of the time, as it provides a happy compromise tone, but there are times when there is no substitute for the unrestrained treble pickup roar.

For something mellow (beyond that gained by technique changes) I suggest the bass pickup soloed, and wind the tone pot down about 15-20%. I've got a friend who likes to wind the tone right back (but keep the treble pickup engaged), but this is just a bit too woolly to my ear.

[jps]

This [.0047µF] cap has several impacts:

- Filters out a substantial band of bass frequencies produced by the treble pickup when your lead is plugged into the mono jack......The cheat's way of circumventing the cap is to plug your mono lead into the rick-o-sound jack.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. The .0047 µF cap is always in circuit regardless of where you plug the cable into unless the cap is bypassed by a piece of wire (whether soldered across the cap's leads or with a vintage tone selector switch.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19507.pdf

C3 is the capacitor of interest, here.

[StevieDee]

I appreciate the info lads but sounds awful complicated. Maybe I'll just mess about with the knobs and play a bit quieter!

[antipodean]

This [.0047µF] cap has several impacts:

- Filters out a substantial band of bass frequencies produced by the treble pickup when your lead is plugged into the mono jack......The cheat's way of circumventing the cap is to plug your mono lead into the rick-o-sound jack.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. The .0047 µF cap is always in circuit regardless of where you plug the cable into unless the cap is bypassed by a piece of wire (whether soldered across the cap's leads or with a vintage tone selector switch.

http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19507.pdf

C3 is the capacitor of interest, here.

Sorry, it appears I'm guilty of repeating a much beloved urban myth.... Should read the circuit diagram before spouting rubbish.

Stevie, if you take out all the guff, and don't want to mod your bass, my suggestions boil down to:

- Bright - both pups, pots wide open, heavy attack;
- Mellow - neck pup soloed, tone pot down about 1/5 of a turn, more gentle attack.

[StevieDee]

- Bright - both pups, pots wide open, heavy attack;
- Mellow - neck pup soloed, tone pot down about 1/5 of a turn, more gentle attack.

Cheers that's great I'll give t a go. I reckon the Rick just has a different and unique kind of feel and I'll have to modify my playing to accommodate.

Really appreciate all the info.

[jps]

Urban myths are hard to suppress but we are working our way to salvation, here. It is an uphill battle so I am happy to see a new enlightened soul.

Another one we are very slowly working on (but losing, I think) are the terms vibrato and tremolo that Leo Fender reversed the meanings of many decades ago; this one is extremely difficult to eradicate.

[rickyfricky]

I appreciate the info lads but sounds awful complicated. Maybe I'll just mess about with the knobs and play a bit quieter!

And "3 O'Clock" your mids on your bass amp . . .

And dime the 4 instrument knobs, then roll the treble volume back a scoash . . .

Film at 11.

[StevieDee]

Changed to heavier gauge coated strings and all problems solved. Not only does the bass sound more defined it's actually much easier to play.