Toasters: vintage vs re-issue?

[Ashgray]

Hi

Having recently replaced the re-issue horsie in my V63 for an old lap steel one, which is likely to be the closest thing to an original one, with magnetic shoes, I'm delighted with the results - the sound is very close to the sort of 4001 that RIC were turning out in the early 60's.

This has caused me to consider going a step further. However, whilst the difference in design of the original horsie compared with the re-issue version is well-documented, I'm far less certain when it comes to toaster pups. IS there a difference and, if so, would I find any benefit (in terms of attaining as close a sound to a 60's Rick as possible) in hunting down an original toaster and replacing the re-issue in my V63 for one?

Ash

[jps]

Depending on when your V63 was made it may have a hot wound (12K-ish) toaster, so putting in a current scatterwound (7.4K nominal) will get you much closer, but IIRC, the earlier (50s-'60s) toasters may have been (probably were) wound even lower than the current toasters.

BTW, welcome to the MHSPU Club!

[weemac]

My RM1999 has its original 7.4 k toaster. And it sounds pretty much exactly the same as a new one. Now the timbers on the other hand make the RM sound different to a new Rickenbacker..

Eden.

[johnallg]

Do we know what alnico mix were used on the vintage toasters? Or even today's toasters? Are we assuming they are all alnico 5?

[bluewhale]

...in terms of attaining as close a sound to a 60's Rick as possible...

I don't have an answer to your question, but have you considered adding the cap? To my ear it lets the the toaster come through with more authority, a stronger bass sound overall, even if bass is cut from the horseshoe. There's also the push/pull knob giving you the choice.

bluewhale

[Ashgray]

Some very helpful replies - thanks guys!

My V63 is a 1999 model so it sounds like a scatterwound may work quite nicely. Alternatively, fitting the cap to the horsie is a possibility I'd not thought of - good suggestion BlueWhale, I may look into that.

Ash

[godber]

Ash, I've got a short pole toaster from '66 stuck in UK customs at the moment. When it arrives you could try that one out if you like, but you'll have to give it back even if you like it!

[Kopfjaeger]

Ash, I've got a short pole toaster from '66 stuck in UK customs at the moment. When it arrives you could try that one out if you like, but you'll have to give it back even if you like it!

Nice!! A short pole toaster! Please let us know what it's resistance is when it arrives!!

I was able to source a long pole toaster out of an early 1966 450-12 for my 1965 4001. it ohmed out at 8.1 and fits my Walker rewound/converted raised lip lap steel bobbin Horsie combo very nicely!

I'm normally playing just forward off the bridge but when I play just off the neck, between the end of the neck and the toaster, the tone is incredibly smooth and buttery. That's as close to a description as I can get! Completely different beast!!

Sepp

[Ashgray]

Ash, I've got a short pole toaster from '66 stuck in UK customs at the moment. When it arrives you could try that one out if you like, but you'll have to give it back even if you like it!

Might take you up on that very nice offer Mark! (back at work on Tuesday from holiday).

Ash

[Ashgray]

I'm normally playing just forward off the bridge but when I play just off the neck, between the end of the neck and the toaster, the tone is incredibly smooth and buttery. That's as close to a description as I can get! Completely different beast!!

Sepp

That's just the sound I'm looking for out of a toaster - like Squire's on the quieter parts of "Yours is no Disgrace".

Ash

[Ashgray]

I decided to take up Steve's suggestion above of adding the cap (and a push-pull switch on the pot to activate it) and have just finished the soldering job with mixed results, so I'm hoping one of the electronic ******* here might be able to suggest where I may have gone wrong.

On the positive side, with the cap fitted and engaged, the overall sound is definitely improved along the lines I was hoping for - the toaster does indeed come through with more authority whilst the horsie has less bass, and the difference between the two pups is now more marked. In that respect, adding the cap has been a success.

On the negative side, the tone pot itself now no longer works - irrespective of whether I engage the cap with the push-pull switch or not, twisting the horsie's tone control now has no effect - it neither cuts bass nor treble from the output signal. If I can sort this out so that the tone control works as normal, the result of this mod will be ideal for what I was looking for. Any ideas where I've messed up?

Ash

[Michael4bass]

Hey Ash, can you take a photo of your wiring, it would make figuring it out easier.

Bassically, Michael

[johnallg]

I decided to take up Steve's suggestion above of adding the cap (and a push-pull switch on the pot to activate it) and have just finished the soldering job with mixed results, so I'm hoping one of the electronic ******* here might be able to suggest where I may have gone wrong.

On the positive side, with the cap fitted and engaged, the overall sound is definitely improved along the lines I was hoping for - the toaster does indeed come through with more authority whilst the horsie has less bass, and the difference between the two pups is now more marked. In that respect, adding the cap has been a success.

On the negative side, the tone pot itself now no longer works - irrespective of whether I engage the cap with the push-pull switch or not, twisting the horsie's tone control now has no effect - it neither cuts bass nor treble from the output signal. If I can sort this out so that the tone control works as normal, the result of this mod will be ideal for what I was looking for. Any ideas where I've messed up?

Ash

Does this help?

[Ashgray]

Sorry guys (particularly Steve and John A after he'd been so helpful with the schematic) - I've just realised that I never reported back after re-doing the soldering job.

Soldering was never my strongest suit - an elephant would probably be more precise with an iron than me!

Having carefully re-done the work using John's schematic as a guide, my V63 now sounds exactly as Steve suggested it would with the cap dis-engaged, with a sound very close indeed to that of 60's 4001's.

Thanks for all the advice!

Ash

[johnallg]

Glad it helped. Ash.