I'm curious to see what the average string to pup heights are for your 4004's.
The reason for my question is that I'm still tweaking my restored 1977 4002. I received the adjusted black plexi guard for it and while it is better, I think it still needs a bit more work.
My walnut 4002 has it's saddles cut very deep. The bottoms of the strings are approx. 5/32 of an inch from the top of the pups. The strings all sound balanced and none are stronger than the others. On the 77 4002, I can't get the pups closer than 7/32's and that is after I cut the adjustment screw grommet in half on the treble side of both pups! The E string is very strong but I think the treble side of the pups could benefit by being a bit closer. I was thinking of taking the grommets off all 4 screws altogether and using thin fiber washers as some sort of buffer between the pup and the back of the guard of maybe thinner ) rings. Thoughts?
Here is an idea I was toying with, having a white plexi guard cut and placing it under the black to boost the pups 1/8 inch closer to the strings. I'd have the pup area hogged out as well as the control area so both the pups and the harness were attached to the black guard only. the white guard would act a shim. All I'd need is longer screws to go through both guards and into the wood. Thoughts??
I need to add that the action is low on this bass! and the neck is straight with just a touch of relief. Dropping the bridge or cutting the saddles will create all sorts of fret buzz. The action is exactly where it needs to be. The distance of the strings to the pups is just a bit too much, in my opinion.
For strings she wears Circle K .098, .073, .057, .041 balanced tension hybrid round wounds.
Anywhere from 3-6 mm is acceptable on any Ric bass, adjusted to taste. I usually do 5 mm on the E/B side and 3.5-4 mm on the G side. I don't consider this measurement to be specific to any one kind of Ric bass as this part of the setup is pretty generic; however on basses with a classic Ric neck pickup at the 2nd octave harmonic location, I sometimes add an extra mm on each side so the pickup is further away than the bridge pickup.
Josh, thanks. At 5/32 I'm at 4 mm on the walnut 4002, which is killer, and at 7/32 I'm at 5.5, which would be on the outer edge of the pup adjustment range.
The E is plenty strong so perhaps I'll try pulling the half grommet out of each of the pups treble side and and run it up all the way and put the half grommet in the bass side to get a little more out of that side as well.
Before going out on a limb and having a white plexi guard/shim made, although I am liking that idea a bit.
The distance between pups and strings on my 1978 4002 pups are 3.5 mm for the neck and 3.8 mm for the bridge. Neck is also straight with slight relief, and action is low - hope this is helpful.
I have a 480, which is a guitar but it has the same neck pickup/pickguard design as the standard 40xx bass. What I did was remove the 4 corner screws that secure the pickup baseplate to the cover and move the ground wire to one of the height adjustment screws. This let me put the pickup flat with the underside of the guard, held together with the two screws on either side, and raised it considerably closer to the strings. Couldn't be happier.
Wow, you are able to get your pups pretty close to the strings. I'd be happy to get 4mm but to do that, I'd have to probably file the tops of the rivets and use no grommet or O ring on the adjustment screws.
Grey, the 4002 pup has 4 rivets in place of screws. Not sure how much material I could take off before compromising the strength of the rivet. Not sure I'd gain enough to make it worth it.
Jeff, thanks for the measurements. It most definitely seems I need to get these pups closer to the strings. I'm pretty far off it seems.
I'll run my idea past Tony at Pickguardian. The original 4002 guard is way thicker than plexi and without measuring it, I'd estimate it to be close to 1/4 inches thick. Maybe 3/16. Doubling the 1/8 inch plexi would bring me close to the original thickness and bring my pups a 1/8 inch closer to the strings. I could then use the grommets to actually adjust the pup back a bit and not have it maxed, like it is now.
So no one has commented on what they think of the black plexi guard over the factory white & black multi sandwich guard.
Kopfjaeger wrote:Jeff, thanks for the measurements. It most definitely seems I need to get these pups closer to the strings. I'm pretty far off it seems.
Sepp
Well, distance is related to various properties (strings, pickup design, playing style, etc.) so I wouldn't use our measurements as gospel, really. Having the pickups too close can cause problems in itself so I don't use hard measurements when setting mine, just my ears and "feel". Those measurements I posted just happened to be what they are, not something I was trying to acquire.
The rivets which hold the cover to the base are not that thick. Don't file on them to try to thin them out. You will ruin them. On the other hand, as has been observed, the pickguard is quite thick. If you really must raise the pickups more than the resulting terminal height with the rivets, have you thought about taking a domed dremel tool and very carefully relieving or insetting divots at the points where the rivets contact the underneath side of the pickguard so the rivets will inset into the pickguard and the base of the pickup will be flush against the pickguard?
Regarding contacting Pickguardian and getting a double thickness pickguard, I am assuming you mean cutting out the top layer to the traditional pickup cutout dimensions, like on a 4001/3 neck cutout, then cutting out the lower layer the gross dimensions of the pickup base so it will inset up against the top layer, and effectively giving height that way?
Thanks for your advice on not filing the tops of the rivets. I was seriously thinking of giving that a whirl. About the double guard, yes exactly! The bottom ply would be a skeletonised version of the top ply. That would make the guard approx .225 high, which a bit thicker than the original guard. I know i can use the additional height to get my pups closer to the strings. I know I'm missing out on the power of the two pups since my Walnut 4002 has so much more volume and tone than the maple.
Guys, remember this 1977 4002 was a bunch of parts when I got her. Who knows when the hell she had last played and how long she had sat in water either before or after being taken apart. This 77 4002 is THE EARLIEST 4002 recorded here on the RRF. The forstner bit routs for the pup cavities are screwy. Looks like the bass was finished then an additional series of holes were bored to move the pup. The same size bit was used and the method is consistent with the other holes that were clear coated. The "extra" holes were not clear coated. They were all "in the raw". I wish I knew how this bass sounded before embarking on this project. My sincere guess is it was not all she could be. The original guard was off leaving the pups not well centered in the string path. If she is not the first 4002 from the factory then she is damn near the first. I bet dollars to donuts that RIC was tweaking the potential of these basses as they trickled out of the factory.
Instead of re drilling holes in the finished body, I opted to have an off set pup guard made out of black single ply plexi to line the pups up better. So back cutting the original guard is not an option. Since Mr. Hall won't sell me the NOS 4002 guard in the prior foto, I think I'll use the original guard to complete my walnut 4002, since I despise the multi-laminated one from Pickguardian. Sorry Tony, it's just too flimsy.
I'll save my "radical" idea of two pickguards as a last option. If I could get a 1/6 of an inch white skeletonized "shim" I'd do it in a heartbeat. I think .225 thickness is going to be a little much and may look funny. In the mean time, I'll pull out the full grommets off the pups and use real thin fiber washers to buffer the pups to the back of the guard. That should buy me a tiny bit more upwards adjustment. After that, I'm out of suggestions and options.
If you do go with the double-thickness pickguard, consider having the edges beveled, and possibly even laminating them together, for better fit, feel, and stability.
I'm slowly backing away from the crazy mods I suggested. I need to figure out why the bridge is cranked up halfway on the treble side adjustment screw while the bass side is seated all the way down. In my opinion, compensating for such a mismatch is not the right fix. It may turn out to be the easier fix but it's not right none the less. I always knew this but I lost sight of the big picture.
I've spoken to Larry Davis about this and my suspicions and I plan to take the bass to Chris Clayton next week for his thoughts. He's worked on Dave Pascoe's 4002 and I really trust his opinion. Chris is a 2 hour drive so It's not really that big of a deal to get it to him. Plus he's a great guy and he normally has some real cool stuff hanging in his shop!
