Is my 4001 Truss Rod Original?

[Paulp202]

Hey guys!

I made a post about this on the Ric corporate forum (Actually registered there by mistake thinking it was this site. Doh!). Someone brought up the possibility of my Ric being a fake, and that forum is a little too slow for my tastes. I'll copy my original post here and link to the thread so you can see the replies.

A previous owner claims he sent pictures into Ric and they confirmed it was real, and his luthier who did some work (also supposed to be a real Ric buff) thought it was real as well.

Let me know if there are any more pictures or information that you need from me to help with this!

Original post:
Hello everyone! I just registered but I've been reading this forum a bit over the last few years since getting my 4003. I'm a big Ric fan, and just acquired a fretless '77 4001. I'm getting bad buzz/ no tone out of the first 3 fret position (especially fret 1). I went to adjust the truss rod to see if that would help, and I saw this:

http://s121.photobucket.com/user/primus ... 4.jpg.html

http://s121.photobucket.com/user/primus ... a.jpg.html

Now when I've looked up pictures of a 4001 truss rod, i usually see dual nuts at the headstock/body like these:
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78 ... s-rods.jpg
http://archives.rickresource.com/oldatt ... /36262.jpg

I don't know if I'm missing something, but please, school me on this subject.

Thanks so much!
Paul


Thread link: http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/viewt ... =2&t=15784

I appreciate any help you guys can give me!
Paul

[Ashgray]

Hi Paul

Without seeing more photos of your 4001 it's impossible to say for certain whether or not it is genuine. However, all 4001's were made with dual truss rods and although yours does have dual channels at the body end, there's only one nut! Added to the fact that 4001s did not have binding on the headstock (the only bass that had that feature was the 4002), the positioning of the controls on the pickguard is all wrong, and the TRC is not mounted flush with the end of the fingerboard, I'd say it's a fake...

btw, your top four links do not work.

Ash

[johnhall]

This is a tough call based on only seeing photos. There certainly are contradictory indications.

However, if there isn't a valid serial number on the instrument and combined with the headstock binding and single truss rod, I'd lean toward fake.

I suppose someone could have popped off the fingerboard to convert it to fretless and then decided to replace the truss rod but that seems unlikely to me. The binding would have been easy to add.

I made a post about this on the Ric corporate forum (Actually registered there by mistake thinking it was this site. Doh!).

Easy enough to un-register you if you like . . .

[Ontario_RIC_fan]

This bass is in the register with more pics - QB677

http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... lebrity%3D

After looking at the pics I would conclude it is a real - although heavily modified Rickenbacker..

It certainly did not leave the factory like that..

It could be a fake constructed from Rickenbacker parts (the single truss rod is what disturbs me most) - but I accept that if someone replaced the fret board they may have recreated a new single truss rod channel...

John Hall would (as always) know more then me...

[Paulp202]

I appreciate the help guys. The jack plate does have a legitmate serial number (I entered it online and verified it as being made in February of 77) I'll post the serial number when I get home.

Are their any particular pictures that might help you guys out? The previous owner said his contact at Ric said that he couldn't confirm or deny whether his headstock binding was some kind of one off or an aftermarket addition (even if it was a fake, I don't know of any fakes with headstock binding).

The fretboard was also not defretted, it was definitely fretless from whatever factory it came from.

I own a new 4003 and their are similarities between both that make me think this one might just be modded, but I know some of those fakes were really excellent.

Thanks again guys. I'm really trying to unravel this mystery.

[Paulp202]

Yes, that is the exact bass I have! I don't know if those pics help any more, but as I said I can take any other pictures that you folks might need.

[Ashgray]

I can certainly understand why someone would add binding to the headstock, as it's quite a nice feature if you wanted an unusual-looking Rick. However, the only reason I can figure why anyone would arrange the control knobs that way is if the original pickguard had been damaged or broken, then replaced with a non RIC one. But if that had happened, why not simply replace it with a genuine replacement pickguard? They're reasonably priced and easy to obtain... odd.

Ash

[Kopfjaeger]

Brian,

Wow, very interesting! With the additional fotos in the registry, I love this aspect of the forum, it certainly looks like a real Rickenbacker. The dual truss rod channels with the single truss rod, smack in the middle of the neck is very odd. Knowing how little "meat" is there between the two channels up top near the nut leads me to believe who ever modded this instrument, if a real Rickenbacker, must have filled in both channels at least part of the way down the neck in order to maintain some sort of mass. What type of truss rod is it? I'm imagining it's a new style. The fretboard was off her so it being a real fretless is also in doubt.

Paul, how does she play/sound? If you are happy with her then that's all that matters. Selling her may be a challenge since she does not adhere to several norms that 4001's have.

Sepp

[Wiker]

This bass is in the register with more pics - QB677

http://www.rickresource.com/register/vi ... lebrity%3D

Transition at the back between headstock and neck...

[Paulp202]

Well aside from the buzz at the first fret (haven't made any adjustments since I made the single rod discovery) the bass plays and sounds like an absolute dream. It sounds like a fretless version of my 4003, so if it is a fake (which I kinda doubt) its spot on in tone.

Regarding the truss rod, I've heard that vintage rics can have the fretbaords pop off if you adjust them like a traditional bass. Now I'm just inventing a possible scenario, but could that very thing have happened, and the owner said "screw this" and had a traditional rod installed when he had the bass repaired?

Out of curiosity, how much do you think it would cost to restore this to a typical dual truss rod set up? It probably isn't worth it, but I figured I'd ask.

[Kopfjaeger]

Paul,

Wow, the volute on your bass is very pronounced!! I do not have any 1980 4001's but I looked at my 1977 4002 and it's volute is also pronounced. Not so with my Shadow, or my 1984 4002. I suppose the pronounced volute is correct for your model year. Can you see the center piece of shedua outline through the Jetglo finish? It should have it and you may be able to see it's outline when you look at certain angles.

Paul W makes the proper truss rods from time to time and there is a company overseas, in the UK I believe, that offers them on ebay from time to time. Depending what mods and how much material was removed to add the single rod will determine if your neck can be restored to the original configuration.

Yes, you can pop a fingerboard off a neck or worse yet, crack your neck if the old style truss rods were adjusted like a traditional truss rod. I love the old style rods!! They are solid as a rock! I never have to adjust mine no matter what the humidity or temperature. Not so with the later "traditional" style truss rods.

Returning it is not a job I'd want to do, myself. Routing out the old channels will require skill and proper tools. Who knows what they were filled with. Could be epoxy, carbon fiber, could be just about anything.

Sepp

[RickyBubba]

Interesting, lots of us watched this when it was on the Goodwill site.

Best of luck with what you decide to do.

[jps]

What type of truss rod is it?

Sepp

From what I recall from the photo I saw it looks like a Gibson style truss rod.

The truss rod cavity is certainly shaped unusually, maybe the headlock has been replaced which would explain the funky volute, too?

[Paulp202]

Can you see the center piece of shedua outline through the Jetglo finish? It should have it and you may be able to see it's outline when you look at certain angles.

Sepp

I can see it on the body for sure. The neck was refinished after a scarf joint repair, and I cant see the strip there. I'm guessing the refin is a bit thicker or applied differently.

I'm probably just gonna go set this one up as is. It is great, and it still feels and sounds like a Ric despite the truss rod modification, so I'm not unhappy.

I appreciate all the help with this. Thank you all so much!

As far as the truss rod cavity, I know the headstock wasn't replaced when the scarf joint was repaired. Perhaps they carved something out to accommodate the new truss rod nut? I'm not familiar enough with vintage Ric or Gibson style truss rods to know the difference.

[jps]

The truss rod cavity is smaller than it should be so it was not carved out.