The great flatwound comparison

[coolingitdown]

The type of strings used to get Paul McCartney's tone has been a well-discussed topic here on the forum. I thought some audio samples in a controlled environment might be a cool way to compare tones.

Methodology: my 2010 4001C64 was strung up with three different varieties of strings: TI Jazz Flats, Pyramid Gold flats, and Optima 4099 flats. The samples were recorded minutes apart; I needed time to change string sets between samples, of course. The bass was run directly into a multi-track recording unit (supplied by the wonderful Doctor Who, without whom this would not have been possible!). The settings on the bass are as follows: Neck pickup: full volume. Bridge pickup: 50% volume. Neck tone: rolled off pretty well completely. Bridge tone: rolled off not quite as completely:

I play each set of strings both fingerstyle and pickstyle, using the riff from "Day Tripper." For you purists out there: I play the riff in A twice in a row in each clip to demonstrate more fully the lower range of the set. I am well aware that it's only played once on the recording. There are flubs, but I wasn't shooting for perfection here. Just looking to demonstrate the tone of the strings on that bass. The mute was not used, though I wish I had recorded the riff with the mute now.

Track 02.mp3

(2.62 MiB) Downloaded 716 times

Thoughts?

Enjoy!

[JakeK]

To begin with, pick style is the way to do it. Only way that makes sense if you're trying to channel McCartney (except "Till There Was You", "Love Me Do", "Taste of Honey" and a couple of other things)

The TIs and Optimas sounded very similar, but in the end, it was the slightly brighter TIs that won my vote. The Pyramids sounded okay, too, but sounded the dullest of the trio. Were they the notorious hex core versions or the more recent round cores?

Well done, Jonathan and Gary!

[coolingitdown]

Were they the notorious hex core versions or the more recent round cores?

I'll leave that one for Gary. The Pyramids came off of the 4003FL I bought from him, and I have no idea how long they were in there.

For the record, I like the Optima set with a pick best for Macca tone emulation. The TIs are too bright, IMHO, and the Pyramids were just a bit too dull for my taste.

[KOLAD]

TI Jazz Flats seem to show to have that tone that will work best in a recording for sure. You never will hear the added presence in the higher range on a recording once cymbals and guitars are added into the equation, you'll just hear the thump range. So, the TI Jazz flats would IMO work best for the Macca sound w/ a band.

Strings do make ALOT of difference on a bass as we all know, but the way you play is going to be the "seal the deal" sound in the end.
Another hidden trick alot of people forget about is the way Paul holds the pick. Very little pick is exposed on the strike, there's alot of "finger sound" in his "pick sound", w/ a touch of harmonics, remember that.

[edski]

Another hidden trick alot of people forget about is the way Paul holds the pick. Very little pick is exposed on the strike, there's alot of "finger sound" in his "pick sound", w/ a touch of harmonics, remember that.

Might try that. I have a nice big felt pick around I think...

[woodyng]

I prefer the old Rick/ maxima's. I just hope i never break a string!
On the new horizon,Labella has just introduced a roundcore flat that certainly sounds promising in their ad description.

Edit.on the recordings,i preferred the sound of the Optima's picked. Interesting that the comparative gauges of those 3 string sets,the Optima's are the closest to the old Rick/maxima strings. In the Goldilocks scenario,they're "just right".

[coolingitdown]

I prefer the old Rick/ maxima's. I just hope i never break a string!
On the new horizon,Labella has just introduced a roundcore flat that certainly sounds promising in their ad description.

Edit.on the recordings,i preferred the sound of the Optima's picked. Interesting that the comparative gauges of those 3 string sets,the Optima's are the closest to the old Rick/maxima strings. In the Goldilocks scenario,they're "just right".

I would have LOVED to have been able to put a set of Maximas on and compare those as well, but, as we all know, they are rather scarce and I didn't have access to any even to borrow. And buying a set is right out. I can't justify that kind of money on a set of strings. The Optimas get pretty close in gauge and sound, as you say, Woody, so I'll stick with them and a pick!

If anyone tries the roundcore LaBellas, let us know what you think! A sound clip would be great, too.

[KOLAD]

Are the LaBella's supposed to have a "target" type of sound they are going after competing with?

I've read that the old RIC strings, Maxima's,TI"s and Optima were really different from all other string types in that the go really sloppy and all snake like in your hand when they are just out of the package, and not on the bass yet. Why's that and do they really? Is it the roundcores?
...also, are all these strings above silk underwrapped too as well?

[woodyng]

The labella's are touted as being more flexible and supple,which being roundcore-based like the maximas,ti,optimas,would be true. The TI's are the lightest gauge of the bunch,so they are very low tension,and can be less substantial feeling,or a bit floppy. As far as a target sound,i think you would have to ask Labella...but i am sure they are very different sounding to Labellas other traditional flatwound set,which i imagine to be like the old Fender flatwounds. (Stiff,heavy,and dull,not that there's anything wrong with that,worked really well for Jamerson,Dunn,etc)

[edski]

but i am sure they are very different sounding to Labellas other traditional flatwound set,which i imagine to be like the old Fender flatwounds. (Stiff,heavy,and dull,not that there's anything wrong with that,worked really well for Jamerson,Dunn,etc)

Love those old Fender flats (9050's). They still make something they call 9050's (I think) but they are not the old style. I have a set of old 9050's on my Ibanez - really makes that bass sing. Had them on my old J bass and my 4001 for a long time, but their tension was a wee bit too high for the 4001.

And I still have a spare set. Since they can last a decade or longer, I should be set on that bass till I'm 70 or so.

[admin]

I have a set of Labellas on my 4003. I find them to be terrific with regard to tone and feel.

[woodyng]

I have a set of Labellas on my 4003. I find them to be terrific with regard to tone and feel.

Are you referring to the older Labella set or the new LTF-4A 's? (low tension flexible set recently introduced). I was just on the Labella website,these are roundcore,SS,gauged 42/56/70/100.

[coolingitdown]

I have a set of Labellas on my 4003. I find them to be terrific with regard to tone and feel.

Are you referring to the older Labella set or the new LTF-4A 's? (low tension flexible set recently introduced). I was just on the Labella website,these are roundcore,SS,gauged 42/56/70/100.

Sounds like competition for TI Jazz flats. Would be intersting to hear these in action.

[RobW]

These are examples of my TI-flats pickstyle, trying to get as close as possible to the recorded tone:

"You Never Give Me Your Money" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpjGlGR_IaA

"Something" -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTT45FTqGs

They're both on the neck pickup only. The "Something" tone is sort of the default one I get with all tone knobs including on the amp at neutral, and no compression. If I add a small amount of compression I think I get a pretty good copy of the "With a Little Help From My Friends" tone.

The "You Never..." has a good amount of compression (going through the effects loop on the amp, not after the mic...), bass tone neutral, and on the amp: bass 0, Mid -1, Treble +1 (from -5 to 5).

I used to have Pyramid flatwounds and just couldn't match them as closely as the TI's in my opinion.

[doctorwho]

Were they the notorious hex core versions or the more recent round cores?

I'll leave that one for Gary. The Pyramids came off of the 4003FL I bought from him, and I have no idea how long they were in there. ....

IIRC, I replaced the strings (regular wound) on the 4003FL shortly after I bought it, which was March of 2000.