Can a 4003 truly sound like a 4001?

[Baker69]

Hi guys,

Is there any way that I can get my 4003 to sound more like a 4001? Even with the vintage cap in-line it just isn't anywhere near the sound I used to get out of the 4001 that I used to have. I swapped the neck pickup for a Toaster which did make a bit of difference and it took some of the muddiness out of the sound, but I just can't get that clankiness and classic Ric tone that I loved with my 4001. I use Rotosound 66 strings on my 4003 which are the same as I used to use on my 4001.

I've read reviews and some have said that they can't tell the difference between the 2 models but it is definitely not the case in my experience!

Is there any real answer to this, or should I be looking at my amp settings to try and get the sound rather than the bass itself? I can't afford to buy another 4001 unfortunately which would be the easiest option!

Hope someone can throw some suggestions and ideas on this.

[spongebob]

This is why I changed the pups in my 4003 - I wanted the classic tone. I too find new 4003's muddy sounding.

So I'd say you can get 4001 sound, but not without some big changes!

[Baker69]

This is why I changed the pups in my 4003 - I wanted the classic tone. I too find new 4003's muddy sounding.

So I'd say you can get 4001 sound, but not without some big changes!

Hi Iain,

I suppose a complete pickup, harness and tone/volume control swap would go a long way to getting the 4001 sound, but would be quite a costly exercise!

[teeder]

I would look for a '70's bridge higain and a new harness with 500k pots to go along with the toaster.

[Baker69]

I would look for a '70's bridge higain and a new harness with 500k pots to go along with the toaster.

Although I'm aware that the 4001's had different value pots than 4003's, is the actual harness itself any different?

I wonder if a different value cap would make a significant difference ?

[cassius987]

I'm sure the pickups are a contributing factor. However there also lots of under-the-hood differences in how the basses are/were built. My 4001FL, with brand new Toasters in it, sounds exactly like a 4001. No 4003 in it whatsoever, and even in the "Jazz Bass" pickup only setting (I have a 3rd Toaster in the Jazz Bass neck position). There is something woodier and woolier about 4001 tone -- the low midrange seems to spread out and fill in lots of sonic gaps, but equally loses a bit of low end definition like you find in a Jazz Bass. It works great in some settings and other times I prefer the more "focused" 4003 tone that seems to strike a balance between a 4001 and a Jazz in this respect, though it still favors its older brother over the Fender.

/2 cents

[geofio]

The reason i got a mint 77 4001 sent from America to me was the sound, my good friend Jaymi Millard looked this one out for me with skinny neck, toaster neck pup, and it has a tone to die for , real growl there is an over all tone in there you just cannot get from a 4003 no matter what you do to it !!! the real sound of the ric tone is with the 4001, i played a 4001 in the very early 80's, after that when i returned to playing i purchased 4003's, but they are not satisfying to play, i don't have to search for that sound any more i have it in the 77 4001. there is no substitute.

[antipodean]

I would look for a '70's bridge higain and a new harness with 500k pots to go along with the toaster.

+1. This will get a 4003 to the same spec as a 4001 assuming you have the "vintage tone" cap in the harness.

An alternative to a finding a vintage bridge pickup is to have your existing pickup rewound to around 6.5 - 7 kohms.

[cassius987]

I would look for a '70's bridge higain and a new harness with 500k pots to go along with the toaster.

+1. This will get a 4003 to the same spec as a 4001 assuming you have the "vintage tone" cap in the harness.

To clarify, the original harness was supposed to be 250k vol/vol and 500k tone/tone. The final load was actually 125k on the volumes (same as a Jazz Bass) and 250k on the tones (same as a P Bass).

In general, when I have messed around with various pot and cap values, I tend to favor higher res on the vol and lower on the tone with a lower value capacitor than the commonly use 47 nF (or better still a ToneStyler type of control). But if you're just going for the 4001 tone then absolutely I would use the historical values.

[rictified]

I would get some 70's pickups, that would do it, I wouldn't put the cap back in either, it's useless, just cuts out lo mids and leaves a big space in the frequencies that gives the bass presence in the mix.

[rikk]

All the Rick's I've had over the years sounded different. Even a few years apart. But they all still sound like Rick's. My 2014 4003W still sounds like a Rick and is very close to my V63.

[Baker69]

All the Rick's I've had over the years sounded different. Even a few years apart. But they all still sound like Rick's. My 2014 4003W still sounds like a Rick and is very close to my V63.

Yes my 4003 definitely has the Ric sound, and in my opinion has a more versatile and workable sound than the 4001, but it just can't capture the sound of the 4001. Having read comments from a few people that they can't tell the difference in sound between the 2 models I thought I must be doing something wrong somewhere!

Would lowering the bridge pickup make a significant difference as on my 4003 even with the cap in it's still louder than my 4001 ever was?

Are there specific frequencies on my amp that I should accentuate in order to get it closer to the 4001 sound?

The real answer of course is to buy another 4001! Can't afford to do this unfortunately.

[wim]

All the Rick's I've had over the years sounded different. Even a few years apart. But they all still sound like Rick's. My 2014 4003W still sounds like a Rick and is very close to my V63.

Yes my 4003 definitely has the Ric sound, and in my opinion has a more versatile and workable sound than the 4001, but it just can't capture the sound of the 4001. Having read comments from a few people that they can't tell the difference in sound between the 2 models I thought I must be doing something wrong somewhere!

Would lowering the bridge pickup make a significant difference as on my 4003 even with the cap in it's still louder than my 4001 ever was?

Are there specific frequencies on my amp that I should accentuate in order to get it closer to the 4001 sound?

The real answer of course is to buy another 4001! Can't afford to do this unfortunately.

My '74 pu's are wound to about 8K.
You pickups are hotter and thus louder. But they'll sound different too.
They'll deliver more low-mid and mid range tone.
Off course there's the different neck position too.
The neck of your 4003 will be stiffer too.
So there you go:
shave the neck down
install the old style rods
reposition the neck PU
replace the controls
unwind the pu's
Inject 2cans of mojo into the wood

or sell it and indeed, buy a 4001.

Remember, when it comes down to it, the 4003 is an IMPROVED 4001.
It wouldn't be the rr forum if we didn't think different though

[Baker69]

I think I want the best of both worlds and what I am trying to do is probably unachievable without ruining my 4003 which is a fantastic bass in its own right. I don't really want to "convert" it into a 4001 but just to try and get the best possible "classic" Ric tone out of it.

I've seen Videos of 4003's which sound a lot closer to 4001's than mine does, which has led me to believe that possibly mine is set up wrong (e.g. pickup heights) or I am dialling in totally the wrong settings on my amp?

[Badanovski]

When you say vintage what are you talking about . What era. The 60's basses with toaster & horseshoe. The early 70's with toaster & early hi-gain. or the later 70's with (in my opinion) weak hi-gains. All 3 of these sound a bit different especially the weak hi-gains. I believe there is an inherent Ric sound due to body shape & such. So you can get reasonably close to any of the vintage variations with a 4003. If your having problems getting the sound of a certain bass player then you need to research their playing technique.