Rickenbacker, betting on the past to ensure their future?

[Kopfjaeger]

As you all know, Lenny has joined Chris Squire, Maurice Gibb, Rick James, and John Lennon. That got me thinking, what famous and popular touring artists still use Rickenbacker instruments?? Tom Petty Susanna Hoffs? Anyone else?? REM is no longer, MACCA no longer wields his 4001s,and neither does Glover. Go to any major instrument manufacturer website and it's loaded with a wide spectrum of artists that use their gear. Not so with RIC. It certainly appears that RIC is content to live in the past and rely on the past to continue to build the future. Yes, Rickenbacker has a storied history and their followers are very loyal. Yes, Rickenbacker sells everything they make so i suppose you can't argue that they are not successful but what are they doing to make sure their rich history lives on through the music of relevant popular artists? When they were hungry and struggling to carve out a place for themselves they had a star studded stable of famous and popular artists that supported the brand. Ricky Nelson, Jim Reeves and the Blue Boys, The Who, Yes, The Beatles, The Kinks, The Jam, Deep Purple, REM, Tom Petty, The Smithereens, an so many others.

Sepp

[aceonbass]

I see Ricks all the time on various televised musical chanels and events. Not as often as other brands, but there are way more brands out there than there were in the 60's-70's. They don't give their stuff away to get artists to play them though like most of the other brands do either.

[woodyng]

Whenever i see one being played by a new-to-me band,i always pay a bit more attention to the band....
As far as famous and influential,maybe that's not so big a thing with most modern bands' bassists bacause of the way they play in the band context....
Franz Ferdinand's bass player comes to mind as a modern Rick user,he's great,as is the band. Also the Flaming Lips,who i really love.
People still seem to want to buy the unique sound of Rick basses,so i would imagine it's the old adage,"if it ain't broke,(and selling),don't fix it."

[Kopfjaeger]

I see Ricks all the time on various televised musical chanels and events. Not as often as other brands, but there are way more brands out there than there were in the 60's-70's. They don't give their stuff away to get artists to play them though like most of the other brands do either.

Dane, I don't know how that stuff works, being endorsed by a company. I guess I'll never have to worry about that either. I do get stoked when I see a commercial with a 4003 in it, that's no lie. Seeing your favorite musician with a guitar strapped to him/her is an easy way to get instant brand appeal. Like Lemmy, you never saw him with anything but his Rickenbackers, NEVER!! Was thrilled to see the bassist for Soundgarden playing a 4003 last year when they reformed and were playing. When I'm watching American Idol (rarely) or The Voice more frequently, I look to see what the musicians are using. I never see a Rickenbacker.

My brother in law is a former musician. He has a friend who is an accomplished and fairly famous bassist that tours all over the world. He was talking to him about instruments and mentions that I play Rickenbacker basses. The musician chuckles and says no serious career musicians are playing Rickenbackers because they are not up to pro standards and because the company operates like it's run by a bunch of first graders. His words, not mine. I know, it's one random persons opinion.

I do get the fact that Rickenbacker has no trouble selling everything they make, so what does it matter if someone famous or no one at all wears and plays their instruments. I just think that without keeping current eventually the brand will not be viewed with the favor it now enjoys. Looking at the current RIC website is pretty depressing. Their modern history talks about REM, didn't they break up a year or so ago?? All "their artists" the ones that supported the brand, or vise vesa are no longer touring, no longer use Rickenbackers, or are dead. well except for Tom Petty, he's not dead, yet.

I also get that Rickenbacker is a privately owned company that makes all their instruments in the USA. I like that aspect, a lot. To use Spector as a comparison, they have three levels of instruments, the USA line, the European Line, and the Korean line. The USA instruments are the top quality with the European line running a close second and both are made by hand or as much as Rickenbackers are. Spector USA & European instruments are more expensive than Rickenbackers but still have a huge amount of current and famous artists playing them. Spector is also a privately owned company.

I like the brand,. I like the history. I like the fact that all their stuff is USA made. I don't have a vested interest in the company so what they do really does not matter to me. i just don't see how their long term growth is secured with no link to what is relevant and trending today because ask yourself when you first noticed the brand. I'm sure it was when a band you followed or liked was playing one.

Sepp

[woodyng]

Oh,just remembered Transatlantic! Pete Trewawas is a monster killa bassist who plays a 4000 most of the time.
I don't think you could find a more PRO group in existence....of course,it is PROG,so it may have a limited appeal.

[Tommy]

It certainly appears that RIC is content to live in the past and rely on the past to continue to build the future.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

You dismiss Rickenbacker's past while 90% of every guitar maker in the world would kill to have Rickenbacker's past. Taylor guitars has the biggest star on Earth playing their guitar right now (Taylor Swift), but don't you think Taylor guitars would rather have had Lennon, Harrison, Marr, Lemmy, McCartney, Petty, Townshend, Geddy, Squier, Weller, Buck....?

John Lennon and George Harrison haven't played their iconic Rickenbackers in fifty years. And people still buy models that they played. As a guitar company wouldn't you rather have a stable of past legends playing your gear then current here-today-gone-tomorrow stars? I didn't grow up with The Beatles, but guess what? I bought three Rickenbackers because of them. And in ten years time, some long haired kid is going to look to buy a bass and because of Lemmy that kid will buy a Rickenbacker. Those past legendary players have more pull and power than you give them credit for. Lemmy will sell a lot more Ric basses than the current bass player in Justin Timberlake's band will sell Fenders.

[Kopfjaeger]

Tom, you seriously need to re-read my post. Nowhere in it did I downplay or minimize Rickenbackers past. Seriously?? It's where they built their success. My question was and still is, what is Rickenbacker doing today to ensure that future musicians continue to seek out their instruments. What current rock, metal, rap, country or Jazz icons use their gear?

Legitimate question. Some of todays bands will be tomorrows legends.

Sepp

[Grey]

Taylor guitars has the biggest star on Earth playing their guitar right now (Taylor Swift), but don't you think Taylor guitars would rather have had Lennon, Harrison, Marr, Lemmy, McCartney, Petty, Townshend, Geddy, Squier, Weller, Buck....?

As a matter of fact, no, I don't think they would. If we took a poll of general age groups on this forum I don't think it's a stretch to say the bulk of our userbase would be 40 and up. Those bands you mention, the people who buy instruments because of their influence do so because they were around when those bands were on top of the world. Fender, Taylor, Gibson, these companies recognize the importance of targeting the bands and musicians that are on top of the world today.

I'm more than happy to discuss what-if scenarios but the only truth I know is that I am 25, and in the 5 years i've been playing my Rickenbacker guitar i've never met anyone my age who owned another.

Hell, forget "signature models" or endorsements, Rickenbacker as a company does not even recognize the young musicians who use their instruments. I'm a big fan of Orange Amplifiers and if you go to their website they have an "Artists" category where they feature musicians who use their gear, it's exposure for the group and exposure for the company, everyone wins.

Rickenbacker's most recent "news" entry on their website is an article from two years ago.

[Tommy]

No, no. Sorry if you feel I misread your post. I know you recognize Ric's glorious past. My point remains that, believe it or not, that glorious past is all the company needs to sell gear. The Beatles - a band that hasn't been together in 47 years - just two days ago ventured into the modern world of music streaming. They were streamed 50 million times in the first 48 hours! Average: that's a million times an hour! To have three of those Beatles play your company's instrument is quite an arrow to have in your company's quiver. Dead or old Beatles is a stronger marketing tool than having, say, three young guys from Fall Out Boy play your instruments.

What current rock, metal, rap, country or Jazz icons use their gear?

The Beatles. Oddly enough, one doesn't have to be alive to have an impact. Look again at The Beatles first two days of streaming. Look at who was the biggest selling band in the decade 2000-10...The Beatles. Why do you assume that a band on the charts right now will have more influence than a past band?

[Kopfjaeger]

Tom,

Your sorry that I feel you misread my post???? You wrote that I "dismissed Rickenbacker's past". That's your quote. There is no confusion there.

I've got two high school/early college age kids. The Beatles, for one, are not relevant to them or their friends. Most of their friends don't know who the Beatles are let alone their songs and least of all what brand instruments they played. Why do I think this, here goes. My son is home from college so he had a dozen or so of his high school friends over last week. My 65 4001 hangs on the wall & while making small talk with them one asked what's so special about it. When I told them is a year younger than the one Paul McCartney played, only one knew who McCartney was and he was a musician. He only knew McCartney played the bass that looked like a violin. Of the 12 only one or two or could name a Beatles song. These are average young adults 7 miles outside of NYC.

I didn't waste my time asking the same question about the Kinks , Yes, or Rick James.

Sepp

[Tommy]

1) As a matter of fact, no, I don't think they would

2) Those bands you mention, the people who buy instruments because of their influence do so because they were around when those bands were on top of the world. Fender, Taylor, Gibson, these companies recognize the importance of targeting the bands and musicians that are on top of the world today.

I'm more than happy to discuss what-if scenarios but the only truth I know is that I am 25, and in the 5 years i've been playing my Rickenbacker guitar i've never met anyone my age who owned another.

1) You honestly believe the CEO of Taylor guitars would rather have Taylor Swift on his company's ARTISTS page than John Lennon, Paul McCartney, and George Harrison?

2) I was not around for The Beatles reign...yet I bought three Rickenbackers because of them. I was not around for Chet Atkins reign...yet, I bought a big hollow body Gretsch because of him. A ton of young players today are sporting Cobain style Jaguars -- he died before they were even born. Many, many people buy gear because of artists who were not of their time. And at this point in time with guitar based music more or less on life support, I'd bet that most guitar buyers are buying gear that artists not of their time played.

3) The fact that you see no one of your age group playing a Ric has little to do with influence of current artists and more to do with pricing. A very good entry level Gibson or Fender costs around $600. An entry level Rickenbacker costs...heck, there is no entry level Rickenbacker. So, if you are in your early twenties, I agree, you won't see a lot of guys/gals in your age group playing Rickenbackers. Just as you don't see many teens/young twenties playing Rics, you don't see many teens/young twenties driving Ferraris. You think influence has anything to do with that...or price?

[Tommy]

Tom,

Your sorry that I feel you misread my post???? You wrote that I "dismissed Rickenbacker's past". That's your quote. There is no confusion there.

Well, if you want to get technical about it, your thread is wondering about Ric's reliance on the past. I never wondered about that. Seems to me a decent business model to have a past of Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Townshend, Marr, Lemmy, Geddy, Petty.... It's a great thread you started, but you are raising the question about a reliance on the past.

The Beatles, for one, are not relevant to them or their friends. Most of their friends don't know who the Beatles are...

I didn't waste my time asking the same question about the Kinks , Yes, or Rick James.

And there were three brilliant kids on JEOPARDY's college champions show who didn't even know who Madonna was. All three of them! So, young people may or may not recognize The Beatles or Madonna. It's just anecdotal evidence. I can name kids who do know Madonna and The Beatles, you can name some who don't.

But I bet you they would all know Rick James. Just play them that MC Hammer song.

[Grey]

1) You honestly believe the CEO of Taylor guitars would rather have Taylor Swift on his company's ARTISTS page than John Lennon, Paul McCartney, and George Harrison?

2) I was not around for The Beatles reign...yet I bought three Rickenbackers because of them. I was not around for Chet Atkins reign...yet, I bought a big hollow body Gretsch because of him. A ton of young players today are sporting Cobain style Jaguars -- he died before they were even born. Many, many people buy gear because of artists who were not of their time. And at this point in time with guitar based music more or less on life support, I'd bet that most guitar buyers are buying gear that artists not of their time played.

3) The fact that you see no one of your age group playing a Ric has little to do with influence of current artists and more to do with pricing. A very good entry level Gibson or Fender costs around $600. An entry level Rickenbacker costs...heck, there is no entry level Rickenbacker. So, if you are in your early twenties, I agree, you won't see a lot of guys/gals in your age group playing Rickenbackers. Just as you don't see many teens/young twenties playing Rics, you don't see many teens/young twenties driving Ferraris. You think influence has anything to do with that...or price?

Yes. The Beatles are not on national television right now waving around the Taylor name on a headstock, there is no question in my mind who they would rather have. It's basic marketing, you want product exposure. If Taylor could have The Beatles and Taylor Swift then it would be no question, but in terms of who is selling the most guitars right now I think Taylor will have Rickenbacker beat 5:1. I already know the response to those numbers as well: Rickenbacker has no desire to expand. No desire to change, no desire to grow. They are content, and nothing breeds stagnation faster than being content with ones own success.

I also think it's foolish to dismiss the lack of young artists using Rickenbacker instruments as the result of a price barrier, nor do I agree with the Ferrari comparison. You can have a solid Rick every day of the week for $900 - $1,200 on eBay, I have friends with $2000 Les Pauls and $3000 vintage Jazzmasters. Price is not the issue, Rickenbacker simply has no presence amongst young players. You and I have a similar appreciation for older music, that makes us the exception not the rule. Not to mention, good luck actually finding a Rickenbacker hanging in a store somewhere. The simple fact is that Rickenbacker as a brand has virtually no presence in the music industry unless you look for it.

[Tommy]

1) The simple fact is that Rickenbacker as a brand has virtually no presence in the music industry unless you look for it.

2) The Beatles are not on national television right now

OK, I'll go along and agree with your premise that Ric has no presence and I'll counter with this: So what? The best chocolates have to be searched for while Reese's and Hershey are at every counter in every store. I prefer Ghirardelli over a Chunky bar, and, similarly, for those guitar players who are serious about their instrument of choice, yes, they will go looking for a top instrument. For those that are not, they will go to Guitar Center and buy an Epiphone. Again, so what? Ric is doing what they want in their sales...as you noted, content with their market and no desire to expand. Why is that a problem? If John Lennon (who has actually been dead longer than he was ever famous) can still sell guitars, and Ric is happy with those numbers, why does anyone perceive something is wrong? Yes, you may be right: Ric has no presence in the music industry. But I will add no presence with amateurs, hackers, kids who try guitar for two weeks before moving on to snowboarding.

2) Then how do you account for The Beatles being the second highest selling musical act of the past decade and just two days ago setting a record for streaming? Yeah, the Liverpool Lads are not be playing this year's Super Bowl, but to think they have disappeared off the face of TV is odd. My God, I see that Paul McCartney guy every two seconds on TV. Just saw him shaking a jingle bell on "Saturday Night Live" a week ago.

[Kiddwad57]

I haven't read all the details of your respective posts, but I can throw some concepts out there based on experience. I've been teaching History of Rock Music at the college level for just about 20 years; teaching electric bass lessons for far longer than that. On the one hand, the two most influential artists that students are consistently interested in are Jimi Hendrix and the Beatles. There are others: Dylan, Marley, Elvis. But in recent years most don't know, aren't even familiar with, any of the Beatles tunes. They don't speak to most students in the way that they had.

On the other hand, there are a few students every term who care passionately about the entire history of Rock Music; I offer them what I can and they return the favor by informing me about new bands. (It's a great life!). From all of them I encounter a respect for the History of the Music and a uniform understanding that the '50s, '60s and early '70s were a time when Rock shaped the way young people were thinking.

You can see from the instruments that are currently being marketed, that vintage and vintage styled instruments are extremely popular. You do see plenty of Ricks in the larger urban area stores and catalogs. Apparently lots of people are buying them and they aren't all old codgers. They may be going in and out of style, but I don't think there was ever a time when Rickenbackers were actually commonplace. When I was coming up, in the early seventies, everyone wanted Les Pauls and Fender Strats and basses. Rick twelves were something you'd get for that particular sound. 4001z were always for the adventurous few, and looked at askance by more roots oriented players, (not me!).

Since I'm a gear head, I include as much as possible about guitars and amps, always including Rickenbacker as part of the discussion, based on the importance of the company's contributions to guitar history.