Playing a fretless ric

[dlmarquez]

About 3 months ago I finally got my unicorn…a fretless Ric. Its a 2008 4003 factory fretless that has been converted to a single pickup, which is great for me, because I am totally a single pickup kind of player.
Its been quite an eye opener and an education getting familiar and comfortable playing a fretless ric. The Ric seems to be a much more demanding fretless than the others I have played. I seem to be able to find the sounds I am looking for, but the Ric is very unforgiving of poor technique with either hand, but especially LH finger placement and pressure. Even slight rolling of the fingertips changes the tone. The classic Jaco mwah is there if I want to go for it, but it also has an array of sounds that are much more “acoustic” in the sense that they have an airy almost woody tone.
Maybe it has to do with the TI Jazz flats it is strung up with. I have zero experience with TI jazz flats. All my previous fretless experience has been with LaBella Tapewounds (I love the feel of them) and I am wondering if I should string up a set of them on the Ric to see if it substantially changes the playing characteristics and sound?
Anyone here done any A/Bing of the fretless Ric with TI JF’s and tapewounds?
Also, do those of you with fretless Ric’s also find that they seem to be more sensitive to technique than other fretless basses.
The fretless J I had and a custom fretless with a Dark Star pickup both seemed much less sensitive to technique, easier to play but not as dynamic.
Anyway, I’d love to hear your experiences!
Also, just to satisfy my curiosity, do most of you fretless Ric players use tube, solid state, or tube pre/solid state power amps?

[Dirk]

I know some folks will call my suggestion blasphemy, but have you ever tried round wound strings?

All my fretless basses, I only use round wounds.

And before you say I'm worried about fingerboard damage, it takes many, many years to cause any damage to the coated fingerboards.
And the great thing about coated fingerboards, is they can easily be repaired by a few new coats of finish.

[jps]

I know some folks will call my suggestion blasphemy, but have you ever tried round wound strings?

All my fretless basses, I only use round wounds.

And before you say I'm worried about fingerboard damage, it takes many, many years to cause any damage to the coated fingerboards.
And the great thing about coated fingerboards, is they can easily be repaired by a few new coats of finish.

Is it that easy to add more finish to a UC cured poly? I really don't know, but. TTBOMK, I'm pretty sure that the poly finish on all the wood trim and flooring in our house would require stripping/removing the whole area, say the wainscot in the dining room for example to repair damage in an area, that it cannot be easily spot repaired.

[Dirk]

First thing to consider is you should be able to use rounds for years with very minimal fingerboard scratching.

In my experiences, a fresh coat of poly would melt into the previous layer and bond well.
I've never done the UV cure poly, but regular old Poly reworks really well this way.
This is basically the technique used to build up layers over time.

Or wait for a flat strings player to chime in.

Good luck,
Dirk

[jps]

In my experiences, a fresh coat of poly would melt into the previous layer and bond well.
I've never done the UV cure poly, but regular old Poly reworks really well this way.
This is basically the technique used to build up layers over time.

Can the new coat be added onto the old coat or does the old coat need some sanding first?

[Korladis]

About 3 months ago I finally got my unicorn…a fretless Ric. Its a 2008 4003 factory fretless that has been converted to a single pickup, which is great for me, because I am totally a single pickup kind of player.
Its been quite an eye opener and an education getting familiar and comfortable playing a fretless ric. The Ric seems to be a much more demanding fretless than the others I have played. I seem to be able to find the sounds I am looking for, but the Ric is very unforgiving of poor technique with either hand, but especially LH finger placement and pressure. Even slight rolling of the fingertips changes the tone. The classic Jaco mwah is there if I want to go for it, but it also has an array of sounds that are much more “acoustic” in the sense that they have an airy almost woody tone.
Maybe it has to do with the TI Jazz flats it is strung up with. I have zero experience with TI jazz flats. All my previous fretless experience has been with LaBella Tapewounds (I love the feel of them) and I am wondering if I should string up a set of them on the Ric to see if it substantially changes the playing characteristics and sound?
Anyone here done any A/Bing of the fretless Ric with TI JF’s and tapewounds?
Also, do those of you with fretless Ric’s also find that they seem to be more sensitive to technique than other fretless basses.
The fretless J I had and a custom fretless with a Dark Star pickup both seemed much less sensitive to technique, easier to play but not as dynamic.
Anyway, I’d love to hear your experiences!
Also, just to satisfy my curiosity, do most of you fretless Ric players use tube, solid state, or tube pre/solid state power amps?

The thing that may also be throwing you off is that the scale length is slightly shorter than most other basses.

I would just use the strings you use on your other basses.

I don't have a Ric fretless, but when I've played my upright live and amplified I just use my Ampeg PF-50T, which is tube.

[jps]

When I first got my '04 4003FL I used it for a while with the stock RIC strings and all was fine. I did eventually put a set of Chromes on it (40-55-75-95) and gigged/recorded it with those strings.

Rare Blend gig October '05

Here is the only recording I currently have available.

[lumgimfong]

I have a Guild Starfire fretless and it is hard to play in tune as Im a new to fretless playing. Fingertip rotation and all but maaaaan does it have great tone!!!! Just gotta practice more!!!

[Dirk]

Hey JPS,
I have always done a bit of light scuffing before adding new poly, for grip.
Plus it gives you the chance to level any problem wear areas if they exist.

The thing is it really does melt the existing layer when you spray or rub on the new poly.
That said, just make sure you're using the same poly. Not all the poly is the same and could
certainly cause issues with mixing and matching.

Oh yeah, of course it might be wise to test on a piece of scrap first if you can.
Good luck,
Dirk

[jps]

Hey JPS,
I have always done a bit of light scuffing before adding new poly, for grip.
Plus it gives you the chance to level any problem wear areas if they exist.

The thing is it really does melt the existing layer when you spray or rub on the new poly.
That said, just make sure you're using the same poly. Not all the poly is the same and could
certainly cause issues with mixing and matching.

Oh yeah, of course it might be wise to test on a piece of scrap first if you can.
Good luck,
Dirk

Thanks very much for this information. I have read otherwis,e but real-world experience always trumps book knowledge!

[Dirk]

Let me say again though, I have NO experiences with UV cure poly.
Just standard off the shelf poly/spar, brush and wipe-on styles for fingerboards here.

And usually a minimum of 10 coats on a redo. Slight scuff again, recoat, wait for curing, repeat.
Each layer takes about a day to cure, but it depends on your work/finishing environment.
So not a speedy process at all.

Good luck,
Dirk

[rickenbrother]

D'Addario Chromes have a roundwound string zing until they're broken in. I have the EC80 set on my '75 4001FL and the ECB84 set on my '06 4003FL.
They will keep that zingy sound if you regularly clean you strings with Naphtha. Same for roundwound strings. I miss Dr Stringfellow's Lem Oil, it worked test for string cleaning, but it's become hard to find, probably discontinued.
I also have an ECB84 set on my '73 4001. I'll go with that set f I ever change the strings on my 4001FL.
Fender 9050 flatwound sets are similar to Chromes for considerably less money. I have them on my Precision and Jazz basses.

I don't think it would be so easy to fix worn marks in the UV cured finish. If/when it gets bad from using round wound string, it might be better to remove the worn finish from the fingerboard and then give then it a satin type of finish.

[dlmarquez]

Regarding strings on my fretless Ric, I have been reading a lot of the propaganda about the Dogal Hellborg strings, both round and flat wound. I am a huge fan of Jonas Hellborg. I wonder if his signature string construction really does make a significant difference in the tonal output of a Ric Fretless.
Anyone here tried the Dogal Hellborgs? They are hellishly expensive but I would be willing to give them a go if there were at least one or two positive reviews from Ric bass players.