Mike Rutherford's 4001s

bill · Post by **bill** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:22 pm

Just wondering if anybody knows anything about Mike Rutherford's 4001s(or maybe it's a 1999).A friend of mine has become a huge fan of early Genesis(after a little reluctance at first),and now he's got this video of them from about '73 or so, and Mike R. is playing a beautiful light shade of Fireglo 4001s.
I think they were playing"The Battle of Epping Forrest"from "Selling England By The Pound". It's just one excellent example (of many) of Rutherford on a Rick from that era with Genesis, as I'm sure many of you know.For those who don't, try and check it out.But I've never seen him with this bass.Anyone know any history on it?Thanks and Whoa look at the time!I hate bein'a one finger typer.I'll have to check this in the later A.M.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:01 am

Don't know the history of the bass (other than its obviously a 60s one), but so far as I can tell Mike used this reasonably often in the early days; I've seen several photos of him with it (in fact I seem to remember seeing a relatively recent - 80s or 90s - documentary where he was being interviewed and you could see some basses in the background; I'm pretty sure that was one of them, so I assume he still has it). I have a video of them playing several early songs (Musical Box, Fountain of Salmacis, Twilight Alehouse, Return of the Giant Hogweed), and he uses that bass for all of it (well, all of it that requires bass). I assume he got the double necks slightly later to make life easier onstage. It sounds great; he was playing through a Hiwatt head and 4x12.

jps · Post by **jps** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:57 am

Interesting that every time I saw Genesis '72 - '77, any Rick that Mike was playing was Jetglo. Or has my memory gone...where did it go?... I know it's around here somewhere!

bill · Post by **bill** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:55 am

Thats right Jeffrey,he did use a Jetglo double neck.But that was later on.I saw him using that one in West Palm Beach FL.in Jan. of '75 on The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway tour.I think it got stolen during that tour.But the video I saw was a bit earlier in the 70,s and he had the Fireglo single neck.

paul_yan · Post by **paul_yan** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:54 am

Here's Mike Rutherford's double neck JG, custom built by English luthier Dick Knight before RIC started making the 4080 models. Notice the "guitar above bass" construction which is opposite from RIC 4080's "bass above guitar" design. I personally prefer the Rutherford "guitar above bass" which I believe to be more balanced weight and aesthetic wise.

Here's more on the story of Rutherford's double neck:
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/mccorp/rutherford.html

For construction comparison, here's Geddy Lee's 4080:

brianb · Post by **brianb** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:41 am

Thanks for the pics Paul- That's exactly how I remember Mr. Rutherford back in the day. I'd like to learn more about Dick Knight. I believe Simon Gallup owns a black Dick Knight eb 2-like bass.

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:48 am

A fascinating topic. I wrote Mike by snail mail quite some time ago and he was gracious enough to reply to my questions and send them along through his technician. Hence the short description posted at the link offered above. I was very taken by his reply as it was during a very busy time for him.

jps · Post by **jps** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:47 pm

That's exactly how I remember the doubleneck. When I saw the 4080 series in the RIC catalog I knew it didn't look like the one I saw Mike play all those times. The first time I saw Genesis was their first US tour in the Spring of '72 and Mike had a JG 4001, not a FG; this was the Foxtrot tour as they opened with Watcher Of The Skies, something not ever to be forgotten as they had the stage setup as seen on the cover of Genesis Live with the white curtain for a backdrop. Gabriel had his black cape with the rainbow on the inside of it and bat wings on his head with the flourescent butterfly makeup on his face, lit only by a blacklight against a blacked out stage. The deep blue lights slowly came up to illuminate the band as the song progressed throughout the opening section of the song.

Incredible!!!

This was the first time anyone in Cleveland had any idea what this unknown band was all about. They were just some opening act for It's A Beautiful Day.

bill · Post by **bill** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:51 pm

What a great time that was for music!Jeffrey was that JG a single neck?
In relation to the Fireglo;I'm wondering if he got that one in England.If he did maybe it was one of the Rose,Morris 1999's.

jps · Post by **jps** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:09 am

Yes, it was a single neck standard 4001 as I recall.

henry5 · Post by **henry5** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:56 am

Read the link; that's fantastic (although turning a 65 4001 into a doubleneck....doesn't bear thinking about). You learn something new every day!

rickengeezer · Post by **rickengeezer** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:00 am

I agree that the stock 4080 should have been built "like Mike's". My 4080/12 is difficult to play on the 12-string neck--it is hard to see (because the bass neck is in the way) and the Rick 12-strings have such narrow string spacing that you have to be pretty precise in your fingering. It also weighs a ton. But, no, you can't have it!

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:12 am

wow...in playing my 12 string I have to have it sitting higher than my others because I have to position my hand so I nail the strings with the absolute tips of my fingers...something I don't normally do on 6 or 4 stringers. A 4080 must take getting used to!

rickengeezer · Post by **rickengeezer** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:35 am

Yes, it really does take some work. There is a picture of it sunning itself in my yard with my other Ric basses in this thread:

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byu · Post by **byu** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:36 pm

An exact replica Rutherford's double neck exists in left handed form an is use by the phenomenal Genesis cover band, The Musical Box. Web Site here: http://www.themusicalbox.net/
Here are some pics of them in performance:

Cheers,
Bill