I am looking to replace my old amp with something in the 200 to 300 watt range but I am on a strict budget. I am looking to spend no more than 700 bucks.
Unlike most of you guys I am just a weekend hobbyist, playing with the same friends for the last 30 years. I didn't have a decent bass until about 2 years ago when I got my '75 4001. Now, my 20 year old Crate B150 Combo needs to go.
We have a modest 600 watt PA and the guitarist is playing through an old 400 watt tube Peavy. I have read most of the threads here with advice on all kinds of rigs but most of them are out my reach. I have heard some good things here about GK and I have kept my eyes open for a deal on a used one but no luck so far.
Here is what I have been looking at -
Ampeg BA210SP
Ashdown MAG C210-300 combo with a 15" extension cab
and a local shop has a used SWR Redhead
What would you guys do on in this situation?
Upgrading my amp - modestly, Advice?
Moderator: jingle_jangle
-
rickaddict
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6163
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:46 am
I really liked that Ashdown when I played my Cheyenne through it, but I haven't played a 4001/4003 through it. The subharmonic generator is fun. I don't know anything about their reliability however, and I also can't compare to the other two. I have read postings here from quite a few forum members that didn't care for the SWR sound because they didn't think it was "warm" enough.
Play what you love, love what you play!
How about a 70's V4-B head, maybe $300.00 tops. With a used 4 x 10 Ampeg cab? You could get both for $700 or under and would have a nice sound that is very rare nowadays. And they are very reliable.
I doubt your guitar player's Peavey is 400 watts, that is probably the amount of power it takes to run it. The input wattage is usally more than double the output wattage. That would make it twice the wattage of the biggest Marshall ever made. I'd run for the hills!
I doubt your guitar player's Peavey is 400 watts, that is probably the amount of power it takes to run it. The input wattage is usally more than double the output wattage. That would make it twice the wattage of the biggest Marshall ever made. I'd run for the hills!
-
atomic_punk
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5093
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:00 am
- Contact:
I've heard good things about all of those amps but have never played thru any of them, I can heartily endorse your search for a used GK, though. 
I'm waiting for them to start sending me free stuff, for the amount of people I have steered toward them. Love em.
I'm waiting for them to start sending me free stuff, for the amount of people I have steered toward them. Love em."They make great f***'n basses". - Lemmy, NAMM 2009
-
squirebass
- Veteran RRF member
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:05 pm
Avatar has a good reputation, but Behringer is getting a reputation for unreliability according to the user posts I have read. Juergen Rath may be designing the electronics for Behringer, but they are still built in Asia. Rathamp was an Austrian boutique brand, if I remember correctly. Rammstein was one of the famous users of that obscure brand. They sound good on heavy metal at least, as guitar amps, and I expect Behringer to be somewhat similar. Not my brand.
I suspect you meant 40 tube watts, which can still bleed ears if it's a classic style tube amp with an efficient speaker. You'll need 400 solid state watts to keep up and stay clean. If you can't afford that kind of power in a combo, buy something like an RBI and go through the PA system at gigs.
If you are stuck on a combo, it doesn't need to be big if you also own an RBI or similar preamp for the big gigs. Buy used QUALITY gear, try everything you can get a chance to plug into, and go with what sounds best. You can always mike it for bigger venues if a separate bass preamp seems too expensive.
Something like a used Ampeg combo will blow away a new Behringer any day and last a lot longer and get you more at resale time. I think of Behringer amps as something like a German Crate or modern Kustom or low end Fender in the quality department, but maybe I'm prejudiced. I'd probably buy American branded **** if I was buying cheap ****, and it's all made in Asia anyway these days. Even some of the not-so-cheap ****.
If you can convince the guitarist to step down to a 15-20 watt tube amp, that makes it even easier on you to afford a comparable high quality bass combo. To quote King Edward the Longshanks in "Braveheart", "you must find the goods in any situation". This is the most economical route for you if your powers of persuasion are keen. Start laying sales literature around for Traynor YCV20 or Fender Blues Junior combos and such. Then comment on how nice they sound to you. Guitarists have gotten out of hand with the dB levels, and bassists need to rein them in a bit.
I suspect you meant 40 tube watts, which can still bleed ears if it's a classic style tube amp with an efficient speaker. You'll need 400 solid state watts to keep up and stay clean. If you can't afford that kind of power in a combo, buy something like an RBI and go through the PA system at gigs.
If you are stuck on a combo, it doesn't need to be big if you also own an RBI or similar preamp for the big gigs. Buy used QUALITY gear, try everything you can get a chance to plug into, and go with what sounds best. You can always mike it for bigger venues if a separate bass preamp seems too expensive.
Something like a used Ampeg combo will blow away a new Behringer any day and last a lot longer and get you more at resale time. I think of Behringer amps as something like a German Crate or modern Kustom or low end Fender in the quality department, but maybe I'm prejudiced. I'd probably buy American branded **** if I was buying cheap ****, and it's all made in Asia anyway these days. Even some of the not-so-cheap ****.
If you can convince the guitarist to step down to a 15-20 watt tube amp, that makes it even easier on you to afford a comparable high quality bass combo. To quote King Edward the Longshanks in "Braveheart", "you must find the goods in any situation". This is the most economical route for you if your powers of persuasion are keen. Start laying sales literature around for Traynor YCV20 or Fender Blues Junior combos and such. Then comment on how nice they sound to you.
Guitarists have gotten out of hand with the dB levels, and bassists need to rein them in a bit.
If it weren't for those d%*$m drummers us guitar playing folk wouldn't have to be so loud. My 3 favorite guitar amps are all under 40 watts.
I'm sure this won't be much help to you because I only play bass occasionally but I use an early 70's Fender Dual Showman Reverb head (because it works for guitar too) and a single fifteen cabinet. Total cash outlay was under $500 and it holds up pretty good in a small bar. I can't slap or pop but my best friend who is a very good real bass player was even impressed at how good this setup sounded with his high end basses.
I'm sure this won't be much help to you because I only play bass occasionally but I use an early 70's Fender Dual Showman Reverb head (because it works for guitar too) and a single fifteen cabinet. Total cash outlay was under $500 and it holds up pretty good in a small bar. I can't slap or pop but my best friend who is a very good real bass player was even impressed at how good this setup sounded with his high end basses.
Regarding the Behringer amp, here are user reviews.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Behringer/BX3000T_Head-01.html
Mostly favorable I'd say, and you are buying new with a warranty, with alot of power. My Ampeg B50-R cost me $450, and I'd rather have this and a cab for my weekend playing.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data/Behringer/BX3000T_Head-01.html
Mostly favorable I'd say, and you are buying new with a warranty, with alot of power. My Ampeg B50-R cost me $450, and I'd rather have this and a cab for my weekend playing.
If it ain't broke, break it, then fix it.
My guitar playing brother is also mightily impressed with the smaller combos that are coming on the market. My 40 watt YCV40 combo is considered better than his old Randall 100 watt half stack, and just as loud with that single Celestion G12H80.
I use a small Marshall guitar combo amp with reverb, and it works well for bass in small rooms as you say because of its totally enclosed cab with thick walls and Eminence B102 speaker ($100 upgrade) which is much better than what comes in many expensive bass cabs with loads of 10" drivers and those !@#$%^&* piezo horns and huge unreinforced cab walls. The magnet is so HUGE. It was made for popping and slapping. It's as efficient as a Celestion Vintage 8 guitar speaker. You should hear what that little 20 watt Marshall sounds like now when a good guitarist plays hard rock or heavy metal through it. It literally shakes furniture and rattles doors in normal sized home rooms without bleeding your ears. Perfect for detuned heavy metal guitars. Total cash outlay was $350 after the mods, and it's all you need for a home practice rig for guitar OR bass.
I might not ever get a real "bass" combo amp, because I can just plug into a bass cab and do OK. The only real tonal advantage to a "bass" amp head is the equalizer section that gives finer control over low frequencies to take care of room interaction problems (plus maybe more watts and the necessary heftier transformer if it's tubed). I have a dual channel 10-band graphic equalizer that works better than the equalizers on most bass amps anyway (a band for each octave, including the 20-40 Hz octave if using a 5-string bass), and it cost next to nothing on the used stero gear market. You can use it in the processor loop of any guitar or bass amp, with proper adapters. It's active and has gain and cut, so it can also function as an extra gain stage.
I use a small Marshall guitar combo amp with reverb, and it works well for bass in small rooms as you say because of its totally enclosed cab with thick walls and Eminence B102 speaker ($100 upgrade) which is much better than what comes in many expensive bass cabs with loads of 10" drivers and those !@#$%^&* piezo horns and huge unreinforced cab walls. The magnet is so HUGE. It was made for popping and slapping. It's as efficient as a Celestion Vintage 8 guitar speaker. You should hear what that little 20 watt Marshall sounds like now when a good guitarist plays hard rock or heavy metal through it. It literally shakes furniture and rattles doors in normal sized home rooms without bleeding your ears. Perfect for detuned heavy metal guitars. Total cash outlay was $350 after the mods, and it's all you need for a home practice rig for guitar OR bass.
I might not ever get a real "bass" combo amp, because I can just plug into a bass cab and do OK. The only real tonal advantage to a "bass" amp head is the equalizer section that gives finer control over low frequencies to take care of room interaction problems (plus maybe more watts and the necessary heftier transformer if it's tubed). I have a dual channel 10-band graphic equalizer that works better than the equalizers on most bass amps anyway (a band for each octave, including the 20-40 Hz octave if using a 5-string bass), and it cost next to nothing on the used stero gear market. You can use it in the processor loop of any guitar or bass amp, with proper adapters. It's active and has gain and cut, so it can also function as an extra gain stage.
The problems I run into with reviews of new products on the market is that they haven't been owned and used long enough to answer reliability issues. Reviews of older gear are much more valid for reliability issues.
I have found that warranties of unreliable gear are basically useless anyway. It means you can get it fixed in order to shove it on down the line to somebody else, at best. Quality gear carries an inherent warranty as long as it hasn't been abused. The normal situation is that the less likely a product is destined to break down, the more likely the company/repairman will/can fix it right when it does. Ampeg gear has a long history of pro use behind it, and most users report it as being reliable..
I have found that warranties of unreliable gear are basically useless anyway. It means you can get it fixed in order to shove it on down the line to somebody else, at best. Quality gear carries an inherent warranty as long as it hasn't been abused. The normal situation is that the less likely a product is destined to break down, the more likely the company/repairman will/can fix it right when it does. Ampeg gear has a long history of pro use behind it, and most users report it as being reliable..
Jack, that Behringer head certainly looks good from the outside, but I would like to see the insides and check out the quality of components. Are the pots and switches separate or board mounted? Board mounted components must be replaced with exact same dimensional components in order for everything to go back together. Pots and switches then serve as board mounts, and that places stress on solder joints as mechanical mounts. Not good for reliability if the board has significant weight and/or undergoes mechanical stress. I've seen TOO MANY modern Asian electronic products that seem great until they tear up. I had a Pioneer SX-737 receiver that was impossible to repair without major disassembly if a failure occurred in certain areas.
Low prices often mean every concession was made to economical assembly over long term reliability and repairability. The price seems low, even for Asian manufacture. You're getting it for the cost of two or three pairs of high end athletic shoes from the same country. Makes you wonder.
Low prices often mean every concession was made to economical assembly over long term reliability and repairability. The price seems low, even for Asian manufacture. You're getting it for the cost of two or three pairs of high end athletic shoes from the same country. Makes you wonder.