Who Buys These Things?

fergs40 · Post by **fergs40** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:07 pm

OK, here's a late-night thought from a forum browser who hasn't had a thought (of any sort, never mind Ric-relevant) for some time...

It was sparked off by Murph's 650 Atlantis thread - the one that had Murph rejoicing because he had been able to buy a guitar which he really wanted, but which had been hanging in a guitar store for two and a half years, until it was, well, the word you use stateside is 'remaindered', I think (and no disrespect at all, Murph - if you have an axe which does the job for you, for less money than you were expecting, then you totally have my respect, my friend)...

Now I don't work, and never have worked, in a guitar store, so I have no idea whether it is odd for a guitar to hang in the (UV protected, we hope) window for so long. Maybe it isn't.

But my point is that I seem to read a lot of posts on the Ric forum with similar stories. I'm not exactly a regular in other guitar forums, but I can't remember ever reading a story about someone admiring, say, a Les Paul or a Telecaster for that long before opening their wallet. Unless it was a Broadcaster or a 56 Goldtop...

So what is it about Rics? I know they have a reputation for being a premium-priced instrument but, from what I can see, compared to the US Fenders and Gibsons they're actually pretty competitive.

I am also guessing, from this forum, that Ric sell pretty much every guitar they build almost before they've built them (which I guess the Gs and Fs of this world don't). And here is the awful, awful question - why?

You and I know that these are wonderful, wonderful guitars. You and I know that, once you pick one up and decide it's right for you, that other guitars just won't be quite the same.

And yet some of them languish in guitar stores for ages(the recent 325C58 event is unusual, but indicative of the problem), or people buy them and then sell them on almost immediately at a massive loss - my own 620/12, from THAT auction site, was totally mint at about half retail - why did the guy that sold it to me even buy it in the first place?

So here is the point. Is the 'new' Ric market totally driven by people who don't know what they're getting, hate it when they do get it, and then sell it on to the likes of you and me at a significant loss? And, if this is the case, how long will Ric survive before it runs out of, well, patsys? Won't the word get out one day that a Ric isn't a Les Paul or a Strat?

Just throwing that one out there...

mdbuck · Post by **mdbuck** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:34 pm

Well, the Ric isn't a LP or a Strat and I own a couple of those. Rics are not for the masses. They are special guitars (to me anyway). One who buys one and turns around and sells it was probably looking for a Strat or LP anyway I think. To me, a Rickenbacker is not your run of the mill axe. The fact that there is a waiting list for many of them and more often than not a waiting period to get it after purchasing makes 'run of the mill' some other manufactures game.

For me, I like the fact that Rics and everything about Rics is manufactured here in the good old US of A. They are also hand crafted with some C and C. They also have a great heritage (not that others don't) and Rickenbacker invented the electric guitar.

What else do I like, the sound...nothing else sounds like a Rickenbacker. I have 3 Rics so far and they all have the Rick chime although it be in different ways but, there is no mistaking what you here is all Ric.

So, to answer your point...No, the market is not driven by people who don't know what there getting...it's driven by people like me along with the vast majority of people on this forum and countless others with a passion for fine guitars. And Rickenbackers are one FINE guitar!

My list of fine guitars starting off with of course:

Ric 366/12, Apr. 1967
Ric 325/V59
Ric 380L PZ
Fender MIM Strat
Gibson LP/DC
Epiphone LP Standard Quilt Top
Gretsch 6120 Nashville
Fender F330-12 (Acoustic)

I want more guitars

and most definetly more RICS!!

carr · Post by **carr** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:52 pm

I think you will find that there are a number of buyers who think that owning a "class" tool will improve there workmanship when, in fact, it allows them to work the same way more easily.
Anyone who cant play Hard Days Night Intro and extro on their existing guitar is going to have the same problem with Ric.. Just The tone will just change.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:35 am

Mike is so right about nearly new Rics being abundant. It is my opinion that every guitarist envys the Ric sound, but to obtain it, you have to play it right. You can't play a Ric like a G or F & have it sound like a Ric. So these people get dissapointed at not finding 'the' sound & trade it in. I think us commited Ric users have either adapted our playing style to accomodate the Ric, or Rics just happen to suit our natural style.

bull30 · Post by **bull30** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:47 am

In my case I play rhythm guitar in a band... I have not found another ELECTRIC guitar to match the sound of a Ric for this purpose... I believe that a lot of people buy a Ric and expect to play lead and make it sound like a G or F... Unless you buy a Ric setup for that purpose it's not going to happen because a Ric is a Ric and has a VERY distinct sound... I purposely put a set of Pyramid Gold Flatwounds (love that dead 60's sound) on all my Rics except one, which is my Ric 230F Glenn Frey which out Tele's my 1966 Telecaster anyday and is a great lead guitar (just weighs a ton!) and extremely under-rated and forgotten about... Actually other than Glenn Frey there are many notables that play a 230 - Paul McCartney plays a left-handed version, Steve Miller and Joe Walsh (you should check out the "Hell Freezes Over" dvd)

Here's my list of Rics as well as my other GEEtars and the Rics are by far my favorite:

1966 360/12 Fireglo (owned aince I was 16 & mint)
1991 360/12 Mapleglo WBBT <--- My Favorite!!!
2002 620/6 Fireglo
1988 230F Glenn Frey Limited Edition #133 <-- It really wails!
1998 381v69/12 Fireglo <- great playing guitar!
1966 Fender Telecaster (original & mint)
2002 Takamine Santa Fe DSF48C

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:14 am

There are some very interesting comments in this thread. I agree that Rickenbacker has a sound all its own. This sound has traditionally been tied to a 1960's sound which, as such, appeals to a smaller segment of the buying public in today's market.

As the market has not been saturated with Rickenbackers as it has with Fenders and Gibson's, for example, it is difficult for the average guitar player who lives outside of major centres to find one to play.

At some point, a famous new mainstream artist will have a signature model that will blow the doors off. I can hardly wait to see this occur. What I am wondering, however, is will it be a newer, "yet to be created model" that takes centre stage or one of the traditional models.

I would really like to know what new models may be at the blueprint stage or on the horizon.

matchlock · Post by **matchlock** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:43 am

Well in may case I bought a Ric because I've always wanted one since the 60's based on what its reputation has always been for quality, sound, etc., then only to find out it wasn't really what I expected. The question is then do you try another model, new issue or old issue to see if its just the one model you chose or maybe another model will be more satisfying to the individual, therefore you sell the one you may not like and find another. In some cases from others I have talked to they find them all the same as far as quality etc., and only after spending thousands do they realize Ricks aren't for them, so they stay with their Fenders, Gibsons, Gretsch's being better quality at a better price. The individual has to decide when enough is enough. Also I find alot buy out of sheer curiosity and again its not what they expected and they try to recoup whatever they can get and chalk it up to experience. As far as being made in the good old USA, there are Fenders's, Gibson's, Hamer's and several other guitars also still made in the USA at a higher cost than their import versions, for the person that wants only U.S made ones. Bottom line is there will always be a market for Ricks for the above reasons and also for the ones who want Ricks just because they are Ricks and are willing to accept whatever the quality is. I see over and over again bands of the 60's being brought up that a group member had this Rick or that Rick, but what some may not realize is that alot of these group individuals had only tried the guitar or used it for a short period and or was only one of several guitars they owned. This mentality also fuels a curiosity in Ricks and again Rick makes sales. So in ending I think its mostly a name thing, like owning a Rolex, a Lexus, Hummer, Cadillac or what have you, then when you get it its simply not what you expected it to be and you sell it naturally for a loss or sometimes making a slight profit to another unsuspecting or curious individual.

wormdiet · Post by **wormdiet** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:44 am

I'm guessing that that model already exists. . . It's the 380L. If the price came down just a bit, and it were offered in standard finishes, it could explode. this of course would depend on thei being enough of them is stores to try out.

Why?
Many people Love the rick look but are turned off by the sound (yes I know. . . I don;t get it either) and the comparatively narrow fretboard.

A jetglo or FG Laguna would look classic but sound and play "modern."

bull30 · Post by **bull30** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:31 am

Yup... I think the Laguna is a fine guitar and I agree with the finish comment... Personally I think it would great in that special Blueglo of Mary Chapin Carpenter's 620/12...

If you're going to spend $3000.00 or more on a PRS then I recommend you find a Ric 381JK John Kay Limited Edition... It might just shock the @@@@ out of you... I've played one and it's incredible... I should have pulled the trigger at the time and I didn't... Then $1600... Now $3000+... Oh well hind sight is always 20/20....

The QUALITY built Fenders, Gibsons and Gretsch's are no less than the Rics and in most instances more money...

It's still just a matter of taste... For me, I'll take my Rics anyday...

ken_j · Post by **ken_j** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:38 am

Well put everyone. I have owned 2 Rick guitars, besides the 4 basses. First was a 360V64 then a 610. The 360 played and sounded great I just didn't like the large body so I sold it for the 610. The 610 had an even narrower neck than the 360. There was just some stuff I couldn't do on it that I could do on my other guitars. So I am thinking either a 660 or a 650. I have not seen a 650 for sale locally in the last few years so I will wait. I want to actually play before I make a purchase. I do think that it would still be an instrument that would compliment another guitar or two. If I had to own just one I don't know if a Rick would do it, this is quite the opposite of a Rick bass. IMHO

dave4004 · Post by **dave4004** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:39 pm

Is the 'new' Ric market totally driven by people who don't know what they're getting, hate it when they do get it, and then sell it on to the likes of you and me at a significant loss?

No, not even close. It's not driven that way at all. And what you're describing -- people who buy and then quickly sell at a loss -- is much less common among Ric buyers than with Fender or Gibson. If it were common, then resale values on Rics would be much lower than they actually are.

As common as Strats are, and as readily available for prospective buyers to play, there are tons of them that are bought and then quickly dumped. Even more are modded with new pickups, bridges, tuners, and often wind up being dumped anyway.

You said you're not a regular at other guitar forums. You might try it for a while just to see how common this is with all brands.

Won't the word get out one day that a Ric isn't a Les Paul or a Strat?

Nobody thinks that. There will always be people who buy one anyway and sell it because it's not enough like their Les Paul, but there are just as many people who buy Les Pauls and then sell them because they can't get the single coil sparkle of their Tele. And Strat guys who decide that Gibson SG they they bought is too midrangy. And so it goes. I expect it always will.

tony_carey · Post by **tony_carey** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:48 pm

I often read that Rics are rythm gtrs. I am lucky enough to own 6 rics & play them all through a Marshall 100w & 2 4x12s. My other guitarst plays a Les Paul through Marshall & in the opinion of most, the solo sound on my 360's or my 350v63 not only competes with the Les Paul, but out does it! Rics are more adaptable than most people think. The neck p/ups of my 350 for instance, sounds quite like the out of phase position on a Strat, but without that annoying excessive pluckiness that makes you feel sick after a while. Just because Rics are individual & esoteric doesn't make them less relevant today than in the 60's. There are just as many contemporary artists using them now as there were in the '60,s. Surely this means that Rics are not the sound of the 60,s (as many would have us believe), but are actually the sound of today!!!!

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:19 pm

You have made some very good points Tony.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:37 am

I was told long before I got my first Ric that they're not for everybody and you'll either love it or hate it. And I've found since then that it's true, but the people who love them REALLY love them. I've got no problem with the majority of guitar players going for Strats and LPs, it just assures me that I'll always sound different.
And in way, it's like a small little happy camp - that I'd rather the majority not find out about anyway.

shamustwin · Post by **shamustwin** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:06 pm

I surf amatuer bands' sites almost as a hobby, and there are tons of guys out there using Rick guitars.
Young guys, totally modern bands.