Pickup output weak

scott · Post by **scott** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:25 am

On my old Rickenbacker 4001. I have not played this bass for a long time as it had developed, what I thought was, significant fretwear. I've just had them leveled and recrowned good as new, and the luthier told me it had weak output, even with the pickups adjusted extremely close to the strings. So I gigged it that night and the signal strength was no where near what I expected (or am used to compared to my Jazz bass). Balance between neck and bridge pickup seems fine and overall tone is sweet during private practice sessions, but the overall output is maybe 60% of my jazz bass when gigged with the band. The bass is 25 years old, but has been well maintained and is in very good condition.

Whats the remedy?

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:26 pm

Hey Scott, welcome to the Forum.
I take it that by '25 years old' you mean that your 4001 was made in 1979.
Are its pickups original to it? Have those, or the associated electronics ever been tampered with?
Can you post a pic of your 4001?

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:04 am

I'd say measure the resistance of the pickups and then poke around in the bass forum to find what is normal. Then you'd at least know whether it's the pups or something else. Pull it apart and look at the wiring, may be something weird in there that you can spot by eye.
Worst case scenario - replace the pickups.
And welcome to the forum.

scott · Post by **scott** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:07 am

Thanks for the replies, and yes this is an original bass save for the Starz guitars bridge that was installed over 20 years ago. And the S/N puts the date of manufacture at 4/1980. The bass is capable of excellent playability and with the newly dressed frets and delicate truss adjust skills (learned on this forum) that I have applied, it is maybe the best neck I've ever played on. I'm beginning to wonder if the bass is not performing as designed and that maybe my newer jazz bass is a not the most objective comparison. How hot are the older 4001 pickups compared to more current models? And what about the 0047 cap that I have read alot of folks bypass? How do the "pots" relate to overall output, if at all? Thanks!

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:45 am

The bridge pickup has a cap wired into its circuit that removes all its low frequency leaving only treble- which could be confused for low output. If you remove this cap - the bridge pickup will be far more powerful than teh neck pickup and have a full frequency range. Once this is done, the pickup can also be lowered quite a lot and still have full output.

That said, older 4001 pickups are weak in comparison to modern 4003 pickups, and most fender pickups as well.

You could get Sergio to rewind them tho (hes very good at what he does)

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:20 pm

Also, some of the older 4001 bridge pickups tend to short out with age/use. I had a '73 with a blown bridge pickup, and had TV Jones rewind it. It was rewound to about 9.5k, and sounded very good, but I think stock was in the 8's or high 7's. Measure your pickup and make sure it isn't blown. The cap suggestion is a good one also.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:35 pm

I repaired a Ric for one of our forum members ... the neck pickup was weak ... it tested 1k ohms ... I replaced it with a toaster ... it worked fine ...

So it could be a dead pickup or you could be used to basses with hotter pickups ... or maybe there is another problem with electronics ...

the capaciter ... some love it some hate it ... it cuts bass and low mid response from the bridge pickup ... if you want more treble bite then try the capaciter ... if you want a fuller sound with mid punch then take it out ...

When I used to play a 70's ric I put modern 4003 pickups in it ... I like the hotter fuller sound ... I even like the 4003 pickups in my old 1968 4001 ... the 4001 pickups have less bass and less volume ... but you can turn up the volume on your amp ...

rickcrazy · Post by **rickcrazy** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:48 am

"...the older 4001 bridge pickups tend to short out with age/use." Entirely true, and it happens on not-so-old 4001s/4003s too. My recently-acquired March 1986 4003 came with a dead bridge pickup. Heavy corrosion on the polepieces had broken coil wire insulation and continuity. On the newer high-gain pickups, polepiece corrosion can not reach the coil.

scott · Post by **scott** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:15 pm

Owen, is their a similar "limiter" on the neck pickup limiting the highs as the 0047 limits lows on the bridge PU or is the neck pup full range? What do the 047 caps do?

Anyhow, the tonal quality of the bass is just beautiful and the pots and switch perform as they should. If something was shorted out, I wouldn't be getting anything, right? I looked at everything and it is all clean, no corrosion, even the truss nuts are clean and operate smoothly. This weak output isn't limited to one pickup it is an overall volume (output) less than my jazz bass. I run all pots open with both pickups on the 4001 and both pickups full on with the jazz when I play. When I use my Digitech compressor pedal, if I boost the level control I can compensate for the lower output, or I can just turn up the amp. But I've never been past 12 o'clock (on my amp)with the jazz bass and the 4001 is in 3-4 o'clock territory just to compete.

Thanks for the warm welcome and for your replies, you're all the best!

soundmasterg · Post by **soundmasterg** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:30 pm

There is a .047 cap on the bridge pickup and the another on the neck pickup for the tone controls. On some of the Rick basses, (usually older 4001), there is a .0047 cap in series with the bridge pickup to cut the lows. Other than those 3, there aren't any other caps in the bass. On a Rick copy I made for myself, I put in a switch so I can switch the .0047 cap in and out of the circuit. That requires drilling a hole in the pickguard however.

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:27 am

I play guitar - but I use a 'clean boost' pedal when I'm switching between single and double coil guitars, so there's less messing with the amp. My 325 is the lowest output guitar I own. Doesn't mean it sounds bad - you just have to crank it up.
I put the .0047 cap in mine and I like the sound alot. I'd think it's not really something you'd want for bass though. But I guess people like it.

ojobob2 · Post by **ojobob2** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:13 am

Scott, if you remove the .0047 cap wired in with bridge pickup and run all controls wide open EXCEPT for the "bass volume" (neck pickup) control which you should back down a small amount. This allows the bridge pickup to cut through better.

I owned a 73' 4001 for a short while and the neck pickup on that was the older toaster type - they have even less output. I thought that bass sounded awful and had no guts so got rid of it.

petew4001 · Post by **petew4001** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:04 am

Scott,
I had very weak output on my 1979 4001 as well. I replaced the neck pup with a new toaster, and installed a new hi-gain after a LONG search for a horse-shoe.
The bass is better that new.
(Pick-ups ordered from Mike Parks site)