Searchers and Hollies

admin · Post by **admin** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:49 pm

I am wondering if anyone has a good understanding of the history of the relationship between the Searchers and the Hollies over the years. Certainly songs such as "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" and "Radio Romance" were recorded by both groups. But when did the Hollies and Searchers first meet? It would be interested in knowing more about the connection between therse two groups.

marie · Post by **marie** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:34 pm

ALTHOUGH I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THESE TWO STALWARTS OF BRITISH SIXTIES MUSIC, I THINK THE DIFFERENCES ARE WORTH DISCUSSING. THE HOLLIES LIKE THE BEATLES HAD A STRONG SONGWRITING TEAM AMONGST THEM(CLARKE,NASH AND HICKS) WHEREAS THE SEARCHERS SELF WRITTEN SONGS WERE MAINLY CONFINED TO 'B' SIDES AND ALBUMS (WHETHER BY THEIR CHOICE OR PRODUCERS IS ANOTHER TOPIC) ALSO THE HOLLIES HAD A LEAD SINGER WITH SUCH AN INSTANTLY RECOGNISABLE AND DISTINCTIVE VOICE. WHEREAS TO ME THE MOST DISTINGUIABLE FEATURE OF THE SEARCHERS WAS THE GUITAR OF JOHN MCNALLY(I'M SURE OTHERS WILL DISAGREE).THE TWO GROUPS ALSO HAVE SOME SIMILARITIES, BOTH HAVE MANAGED TO ADAPT TO CHANGING TRENDS AND EVEN IMPROVE THEIR ACT BY ADDING THE EXPERIENCE AND IDEAS OF NEW MEMBERS, (SPENCER JAMES/MIKE PENDER AND MORE RECENTLY CARL WAYNE/ALLEN CLARKE) ALTHOUGH THE REASONS FOR REPLACING EACH WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT,ALSO BOTH GROUPS HAVE MEMBERS WHO IN THEIR TIME HAVE BOTH PLAYED IN THE SEVENTIES BAND MUD,EDDIE ROTHE AND RAY STILES.ALSO BOTH THESE GROUPS CAN FILL THEATRES ON SOLO TOURS NOT HAVING TO RELY ON 'PACKAGE' TOURS AS MANY DO, I WAS UNABLE TO CATCH THESE GROUPS IN THE SIXTIES ,AND FEEL EXTREMLY LUCKY AND PRIVILEGED TO SEE THEM NOW, LONG MAY THIS CONTINUE!!!!!!!!

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 5:09 am

Marie: I very much enjoyed reading your comments. I agree that a fundamental difference between the two groups was the strong songwriting team of The Hollies. The tendecy to rely on covers has, to my way of thinking, been a shortfall of The Searchers after the departure of Curtis. Frank Allen underscored The Searchers' reliance on covers during his recent interview with David Wigg. I miss the punch of songs such as "I Pretend I'm With You." Clarke's, voice made in heaven, didn't hurt the Hollies either. No too hard on the ears is he. I enjoyed your observation about the Mudd connection as well. Of particular interest to me is the Rickenbacker 12 Strings used by both groups which adds to their similar sound.

marie · Post by **marie** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:02 am

THANKS, AS SOMEONE WHO IS FAIRLY NEW TO FOLLOWING BOTH GROUPS, I'M PLEASED MY THOUGHTS AGREE WITH SOMEONE WHO IS OBVIOUSLY MORE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT THEIR HISTORY.DO YOU KNOW WHO HAD THE BIGGEST SAY ON WHICH SONG TO RELEASE AS A SINGLE IN THE SIXTIES( GROUP OR PRODUCTION TEAM) AS I FEEL, UNLIKE TODAY THE GROUPS HAD TO DO AS THEY WERE TOLD!I DID NOT REALISE THE HOLLIES USED THE MUCH LOVED "RICKIES" I RECENTLY SAW THEM IN CONCERT AND DID NOT NOTICE ONE BEING PLAYED, COULD YOU GIVE ME ANY EXAMPLES OF SONGS WHERE THEY USED ONE. FINALLY I HAVE TRIED VERY HARD TO DOWNLOAD THE DAVID WIGG INTERVIEW, TO NO AVAIL, IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING PROBLEMS?

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 10:51 am

I beleive Mike Pender had a equally, if not as string,voice as Alan Clarke.

As for the songwriting The Hollies wrote under the name L Ransford and facts are that out of 27 top 50 hits they wrote 8 "A" sides . I am of the view that had Tony Hatch, Pye or The Searchers themselves had more faith in their own writing they could have had as many hits in the same proportion.

I know a number of people having trouble with the FA interview, including Frank himself in downloading it. If you contact me Marie I may be able to help.

admin · Post by **admin** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:07 pm

Marie: Tony Hicks has been spotted with a 360/12 with Mapleglo finish on more than one occasion. As you know the Hollies had a big 12 string sound on a number of their hits and while I cannot be 100 percent sure that all of these recordings used a Rickenbacker, certainly the chime is there. I suspect that tunes like "Look Through Any Window" and "I'm Alive" are likely to have used Rickenbackers. A very good question for the group when you see them live next time. Please do post the answer. I will rely on the Hollies historians to find out what they used in the studio. Thanks for the vote of confidence concerning musical knowledge but the truth is I created this forum because I didn't know anything.
The key to downloading the Frank Allen interview is to ensure that you have the video software installed on your computer. I was fortunate and had no difficulty viewing the video.

Roy: I will agree that The Searchers had good song writing talents but did not use them to their advantage. Mike Pender did have good range but never really got the chance to use it. After he left the Searchers this was amply demonstrated on "It's Over" a powerful tune that I consider is an apt metaphor for the breakup, whether it was intentional or not.

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:22 pm

Just a quick note. The Hollies did not record Radio Romance, although I'll stand corrected.
Peter may be thinking of the somg Hello to Romance.

Indeed apart from Have you ever etc, the only other song recorded by both groups is Sweet Little Sixteen and even tehn The Searchers version was not officially recorded. Appears on Live at Star Club and a BBC recording made available on the Triple set Anniversary Collection

admin · Post by **admin** » Thu Jul 26, 2001 1:59 pm

Exactly Roy. My error, I was indeed thinking of "Hello to Romance."

marie · Post by **marie** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 2:26 am

ALTHOUGH NOT A BOB DYLAN FAN, I DO LIKE A COUPLE OF HIS SONGS,ONE IS "BLOWIN' IN THE WIND", WHICH THE HOLLIES STILL PERFORM ON STAGE, THE OTHER IS "MR TAMBOURINE MAN" WHICH THE BYRDS COVERED SO BRILLIANTLY, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I SAW THE SEARCHERS,AND THEY DID THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THIS CLASSIC,I REALISE THE OBVIOUS CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE TWO GROUPS, BUT IT WAS STILL A NICE SUPRISE. AFTERWARDS I HAD A FEW WORDS WITH THE GROUP, BUT FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION I PLANNED TO ASK THEM, WAS THIS TRACK EVER PUT ON ONE OF THEIR ALBUMS?, I'M SURE SOMEONE OUT THERE CAN ANSWER THAT.ALSO THE HOLLIES STILL DO A TRIBUTE TO BUDDY HOLLY IN THEIR STAGE ACT,AND HAVE RECORDED AN ALBUM OF HIS SONGS, HAVE THE SEARCHERS EVER COVERED A BUDDY HOLLY SONG?

royclough · Post by **royclough** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 7:15 am

Tambourine Man has never been recorded by The Searchers. As for Buddy Holly songs, I 'm doing this oof top of my head , but Holly songs The Searchers have done are "Listen to Me", "Don't you know", both originally on the Sugar and Spice Album.

"Learning the game" appeared on Live at the Star Club but for some reason was called "Led in the game"

For the record on the recent reissue of Sugar and Spce CD "Don't You Know" is credited as Don't Cha Know"

jjr · Post by **jjr** » Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:42 pm

Both the Hollies and Searchers were considered "singles" bands, a label the Hollies tried to shake. They were the two best harmony bands in England. Both experimented with their instruments, e.g "fuzz guitar- "You Can't Lie to a Liar" (Searchers; "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" (Hollies)- electric Banjo-"Stop. Stop, Stop"-Hollies. Both did folk. Diferences: Searchers were the BEST musicians in England, Hollies were the most underrated songwriters, who wrote very eclectic material.

admin · Post by **admin** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:53 am

I am wondering what sort of direct contact that the Searchers have had with the Hollies over the years?

einar · Post by **einar** » Mon Sep 10, 2001 5:02 am

I love both groups- there's a connection! But of course "Have you ever loved somebody". It's strange to me that the Searchers chose one of the weaker songs from the Hollies' song book, to cover! Is this a result of Chris having left, and with him the skill to choose able songs?
I don't like this song much, not even Blunt's drumming, as I've seen praised by others. But one comment to the singing: It's often mentioned that Frank Allen's voice dominated "Walk in the room" (over Pender's). I don't find that very obvious. -But in the case of THIS song ("somebody"), there's undeniably more Frank than Mike in their dual singing!?
Compared- I find the Stones' "Take it or leave it" well chosen for the Searchers- by Chris! Although he found the result "pitiful", it's a strong song, and I find the performance quite up to their standards (with the aid of a session drummer, if I remember correctly).

Einar

sjd37 · Post by **sjd37** » Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:46 am

Einar: It should be remembered that Chris chose this song for Paul & Barry Ryan, whom he was producing at the time, and he said he liked it and had a certain sound in mind for it. So I think if he had been in The Searchers at the time, he would have chosen it for them as well. I happen to love The Searchers' version, though Chris thought it was "icky."

It's interesting to note that The Hollies finally released their own version on their 1967 LP Evolution. Quite a different take on it, I'd say!

While we're on the subject of connections, I just realized that both groups wrote and recorded a song called "Another Night." Two different songs, I know, but "great minds think alike" nonetheless.

sjd37 · Post by **sjd37** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:18 am

Great news. Peter, I have an answer to the Rickenbacker question you posed in July.

Tony Hicks used a Vox 12-string on songs like "I'm Alive," "Look Through Any Window," and "So Lonely" (that last one really had me fooled). He traded in his Vox for a 12-string Rick later on, but apparently wasn't too pleased with it, as he reduced it to a six-stringer.

By the way, bassist Bernie Calvert has also been spotted with a Rick.