Flats versus Roundwounds, again.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:25 pm

my first rule for buying a bass is that it has to sound good unplugged ... flats don't sound good unplugged ...

ever hear an upright bass?

I do a lot of tapping and whacking of the strings ... flats don't respond well to that either ...

I think Larry Graham would disagree.

flats don't give me the Squire/Geddy fret buzz sound I like ...

Now you're getting the idea

flats don't respond well to distortion ...

Ever listen to an early Grand Funk Railroad album?

flats don't have the attack that rounds have ...

Again, you're getting the idea.

the main advantage of flats is that can help hide mistakes and a less skilled bass player can sound smoother ...

So that's why everyone think's James Jamerson and Paul Mccartney were so great.

tell that to Jaco ...

Jaco was great but had a very thin sound. His bands could have used a good bass player.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:37 pm

I hate that grand funk bass sound ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:42 pm

haha! you didn't wait long did you?

gbenner · Post by **gbenner** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:01 pm

"I hate that grand funk bass sound ..."

One man's ceiling is another mans floor, I love that sound, yea, yea, im a flatwound player

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:10 pm

I used to think it was cool ... back in 1971 ... that was before I got into Chris Squire, John Wetton, John Entwistle, Geddy Lee ... for me a great bass sound is like what they played ...

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:00 pm

That's it, all of you, steel cage match!

There are people who like em and people who don't. Accept it, shake hands and move along

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:08 pm

I used to think it was cool ... back in 1971 ... that was before I got into Chris Squire, John Wetton, John Entwistle, Geddy Lee ... for me a great bass sound is like what they played...

Yeah all those 70's guys were great back in their day.

edski · Post by **edski** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:20 pm

To me, it's much less the "sound" of a bass player that makes me interested than the way the notes fit in the rhythm and hamony. I don;t care what several bass players play, I just find their work terrible. Whoever played for Styx comes to mind-basically bland, lifeless parts. And they were playing good tunes, I don't understand why that guy had to play such uninspired lines 95% of the time.

Wetton is a guy I find a lot of people overlook and/or prejudiced against. Ohhhh, big bad King Crimson and their 20 minutes free form jams (actually, I'm not sure any of those pieces exceeded 14 minutes, but if you don't like it it might as well be 6 hours...). The last 12 minutes or so of the first UK album is IMO some of the best bass work I know of in the rock genre. The music is flying, the bass is right there driving and adding some important elements to the harmonic texture.

Then look at something like "What is and What Should Never Be" by Led Zep. JPJ is probably playing a P or a J with flats...but the playing is major league, and it could be played on a broomstick with a rubber band for all I care. It just rocks, doesn't matter if it's a Fender or Rick...flat or round...if it was played well the part just holds it own.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:35 pm

I saw UK, they were unbelievable, Wetton was great and had that sound down cold when it was fashionable. John Paul Jones stated in bassplayer mag that he used Rotosound RS66's because the interviwer assumed he used flats also, doesn't sound like it to me at all though on the first two or three LP's. Even though I was never a fan I thought the guy from Styx was ok, he was a Ric player too.

atomic_punk · Post by **atomic_punk** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:52 pm

I am a big JPJ fan and find he is way under-rated in bass circles. Not only did he play bass, he played keys, acoustic guitar, and in some cases, acoustic AND foot pedals at the same time! An incredibly talented arranger as well.

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:06 pm

Oh yeah, I think he is a great bass player, very funky for his type of music and great musician, very talented guy. Just on bass alone I think he was one of the greats for those days.

bobcat · Post by **bobcat** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:07 pm

Sometimes, I actually think John Paul Jones is way OVERRATED in bass circles. A lot of people think he is the be-all, end-all of bass playing, which, in my opinion, is a complete joke. He's a great bass player, though, no doubt about that. But also, for example, Geddy Lee plays bass, keyboards, foot pedals, acoustic guitar, doubleneck, sings, and arranges a lot of Rush's music, and while he's always recognized as one of the all-time bass greats, people completely overlook him as a multi-instrumentalist, while John Paul Jones' talents on multiple instruments are constantly praised. At least, in my experience . . .

Also, John Paul Jones actually stated that he loved playing keyboards, and that he really only played bass because they needed him to. That's one of the reasons that the keyboards became so prevalent in Led Zeppelin's later works.

jwr2 · Post by **jwr2** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:14 pm

I am a major Tone Freak ... (with capital letters!) if the tone sucks then it doesn't matter how well it is played ... and Ed you are right Wetton is a very good bass player ... and who ever played for styx lacked imagination ...

rictified · Post by **rictified** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:23 pm

JPJ had a lot of feel in his playing, he was very advanced in his note selection and timing. It's not about how many instruments you can juggle at the same time or how many notes you can play in as short a time possible. He was also a studio bass player in england all through the 60's. He played all kinds of music not just rock, that takes talent.

A bass player's tone is much more important than how much of a virtuoso he is to most people anyway, case in point: Chas Chandler always had an impeccable tone, at least on The Animals records, he was for the most part a very simple player, but very hooky. Same with Duck Dunn and others like him.

JPJ was advanced but hooky, when you heard a line by him you never forgot it, how about that little solo in Good Times Bad Times? He is not an easy player to just play off the cuff, he was similar to Jamerson in a way. The more you listen the more you realize just how good he was. You hear more and more everytime you listen to him.

wints · Post by **wints** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:27 pm

JPJ is a great player, no question about it. His feel and overall ability are a large part of what made LZ the group they are.
You just have to listen closely sometimes...