Harmony Wheel and Mode Question for bass

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:50 am

jb - Wouldn't it be better to just learn the pentatonic scales first? just a guess.

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:52 am

I apologize Charly, the Pentatonic scale completely slipped my mind. Yes, I would say for most bass playing this might be the most important scale.

ajish4 · Post by **ajish4** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:46 am

It's been a crazy week. This is one of the busiest times for music in church...I haven't had any time to get any practice in, but NEXT week, I'll be posting some more here.

THANKS again John for your assistance....

To quote: "I'll be back".

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:41 pm

MartinH did a great writeup that sums up this whole thread over at the RIC forum! I don't feel comfortable cutting and pasting it here. but I will do the link.

Music 101

jdogric12 · Post by **jdogric12** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:35 pm

Just read it. He did do a good job of breaking it down. Except #6 "Ditto..." is incorrect. In key of C, you have Dm7 and Em7. Not sure how he could have missed that. Surely just an honest slip.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:58 am

A fellow wrote a book on harmony. Here is a graph

Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression (Hardcover)
by W. A. Mathieu

DECIPHER THAT ONE!!

sloop_john_b · Post by **sloop_john_b** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:08 pm

Whoa! That is freaking cool!

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:31 pm

[ducks and runs]

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:34 pm

Ar first I thought maybe it was directions on making a paper airplane.

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:39 pm

All I know is everytime I want to feel really stupid I come read this forum. It's like reading Martian or such. I have a very good sense of what notes go with other notes, where to play on the neck, etc., but this theory stuff is way over my head. and I know I am really limiting myself because of that.

I fully intend to take lessons w/theory, but this year has been one of immense complications in taking all my time.

lyle_from_minneapolis · Fri May 04, 2007 6:45 pm

John, no reason to feel stupid. Music theory is simply the "mapping language" of music. If you can make music, you're ahead of the game. Theory doesn't dictate what makes music "better" or musicians "smarter"...it just outlines what is happening in the air. It can be very helpful, and essential for those who wish to study the nuts and bolts of composition, but it is really just a way of describing music. At its best, it opens our eyes to beautiful, mathematical patterns in music; at its worst, it holds us to superimposed rules of engagement. Sometimes, too much attention to the cerebral machinations and accepted logic of music theory can even get in the way of musical innovation...

Remember, the Beatles in the 60's wouldn't have known Music Theory from a whole note in the ground...but they sure could write. Just as a map could help me, but I really don't need one to get to Flagstaff. Oh well, rambling now, time to go.

...Walter Matthau! HAR!

markbass99 · Post by **markbass99** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:54 am

That was very well said Mark. I feel that way too John, I used to read when I played trombone and I learned to sight sing when I took music theory in college(1978). But don't ask me to do any of that stuff now, I just want to put on a CD and pound out the bass line....rock out like Motorhead(Rush?)

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:04 am

<blockquote>"At its best, it opens our eyes to beautiful, mathematical patterns in music; at its worst, it holds us to superimposed rules of engagement. Sometimes, too much attention to the cerebral machinations and accepted logic of music theory can even get in the way of musical innovation...

Remember, the Beatles in the 60's wouldn't have known Music Theory from a whole note in the ground...but they sure could write."</blockquote>

I don't agree with that at all. I think not knowing ANY theory is more of a handicap than knowing too much. Yes, you can stumble upon some cool stuff, but you will have no idea why it works. Most of us who are into this "theory thing" are filling in blanks as to what to play in certain situations.

So, if I play a fifth when I should have played a flatted fifth, I won't know it's wrong until I hear it. If I know theory, I will know that it WILL have a flatted fifth before I even start. And that's my whole point about fleshing out some theory. It's like having a chord chart in front of me. We don't practice enough to memorize, so I like the chart as it gives me freedom to concentrate on groove and not chord progression. I know what's coming. Same with theory. IMHO

johnallg · Post by **johnallg** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:07 am

If I know the chord changes, know the song from familiarity, I can come up with a bass part that will move the song along. Whether I am playing a flatted fifth or any other note that is "in the key" is, immaterial is too strong of a word, but not as important to me as knowing my part sounds right with what others are doing and fits the character of the song.

That said, I would like to know more about what it is I'm playing. I got "Music Theory for Dummies" from my daughter and fell down in the latter part of the first chapter or early in the second; I don't remember now. It was like reading a foreign language. I have never been good at that either, and also morse code. Oh well.

charlyg · Post by **charlyg** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:12 am

"It was like reading a foreign language"

That's what young bucks like jb and Jdog are for. They can "splain it to us fogies! Or, at least they have been so far! The problem with books is, when you have a question that MUST be answered before you can grasp it, who do you ask?

I am very happy with my progress since throwing up this thread...