My Fireglo 4001c64s from 2006..a ltd run or special order?

[fourstringfrank]

Yepp as a matter of fact it has a High Gain in the bridge position...I have compared the pickup to the bridge pic up on my 4003 Bass...and its identical...the black pole pieces not the chrome ones like one the reissue horse shoe pic up...and the bass has the plastic pic up cover like the 4003 basses..OK it can be a modification by the previous owner...I dont know...but the bass sounds splendid so for me it´s no big issue if it was original whit a horse shoe reissue or it had a high gain the day it left RIC so to speak..the cool thing for me is that the bass has zero fret etc.,reshaped body.and is in fireglo.
Best Dan.

For the record, I don't think your bass has a Hi-Gain pickup.

It's more likely that someone simply removed the shoes on the bridge pickup. On reissue Rickenbackers the shoes are non-functional and the pickup works the same without them.

[jnbass]

My new 4003 on the same "casting" couch.

Never mind the couch-where's Rath's carpet?

[deaconblues]

I believe they're functional on the C64 are they not? I thought the V63 was the one with nonworking shoes.

Here's a discussion from the Ric Forum...

John Hall, RIC CEE post.

Posted: 6/5/2006 8:16:00 AM

quote: Apparently, these shoes serve as much purpose as the plastic cover I took off my '74 4001, years ago.

"Actually, you're very much mistaken. The horseshoe repro works just like the original, the only difference being that the source of magnetism is relocated.

In the old days, the horseshoe itself was magnetized; unfortunately over time it discharged and the output level decreased drastically. The modern unit overcomes this by using separate Alnico magnets to energize the horseshoe, which will retain their characteristics pretty much for their life.

A standard 4003 pickup has a magnet below the coil and the string motion is sensed only in one dimension, i.e. back and forth. However, the strings move in a helical motion and the horseshoe, since it surrounds the string, allows it to pick up string motion in all axes. It's a major difference and the whole point of the horseshoe."

[fourstringfrank]

Very interesting reading this answer from Mr Hall....regarding The Horse Shoe and how it functions.
Thanks Dan....I must say that you have a very very nice name also.
Best Dan.

I believe they're functional on the C64 are they not? I thought the V63 was the one with nonworking shoes.

Here's a discussion from the Ric Forum...

John Hall, RIC CEE post.

Posted: 6/5/2006 8:16:00 AM

quote: Apparently, these shoes serve as much purpose as the plastic cover I took off my '74 4001, years ago.

"Actually, you're very much mistaken. The horseshoe repro works just like the original, the only difference being that the source of magnetism is relocated.

In the old days, the horseshoe itself was magnetized; unfortunately over time it discharged and the output level decreased drastically. The modern unit overcomes this by using separate Alnico magnets to energize the horseshoe, which will retain their characteristics pretty much for their life.

A standard 4003 pickup has a magnet below the coil and the string motion is sensed only in one dimension, i.e. back and forth. However, the strings move in a helical motion and the horseshoe, since it surrounds the string, allows it to pick up string motion in all axes. It's a major difference and the whole point of the horseshoe."

[deaconblues]

Very interesting reading this answer from Mr Hall....regarding The Horse Shoe and how it functions.
Thanks Dan....I must say that you have a very very nice name also.
Best Dan

Not such a bad name yourself there!

Apologies to whoever originally posted that discussion, I copy-pasted from somewhere else on RRF.

I'd actually like to hear if anybody has taken the 'shoes off on a reissue pickup, and how that affects the sound. I think what Mr. Hall is saying is that the magnets below help the 'shoes pick up the signal without them being fully magnetized.

[rickaddict]

I'd actually like to hear if anybody has taken the 'shoes off on a reissue pickup, and how that affects the sound. I think what Mr. Hall is saying is that the magnets below help the 'shoes pick up the signal without them being fully magnetized.

I've removed the shoes from both my '98 4001V63JG and my 2003C64S. I removed both of them around 5 years ago. When I removed the C64S's shoes I also switched from the Pyramid flats that were on it to RW Elixers so it wasn't exactly a perfect experiment, but the bass sounded great with the shoes on and still sounds great today with them off.

As for the V63...when I brought it to the Milwaukee confluence a few years back, several of us got to compare it to a similar V63 that still had its shoes on. Nobody could hear a substantial difference.

[johnallg]

For the record, I don't think your bass has a Hi-Gain pickup.

It's more likely that someone simply removed the shoes on the bridge pickup. On reissue Rickenbackers the shoes are non-functional and the pickup works the same without them.

I believe they're functional on the C64 are they not? I thought the V63 was the one with nonworking shoes.

Nope. All of the reissue HS pups have the alnico5 rod magnets and non-magnetized shoes.

[86kubicki]

Its an interesting question whether the shoes make a difference to the pickup's sound. While the shoes may affect the magnetic field, does their removal alter the field significantly enough so that there's a noticeable difference in the sound? John Hall says yes, but Jeff and others who have done A/B testing don't hear a difference. Anyone out there have an opinion?

[deaconblues]

Its an interesting question whether the shoes make a difference to the pickup's sound. While the shoes may affect the magnetic field, does their removal alter the field significantly enough so that there's a noticeable difference in the sound? John Hall says yes, but Jeff and others who have done A/B testing don't hear a difference. Anyone out there have an opinion?

I would think, without having owned a reissue bass, that most of the string's vibration is back-and-forth over the magnets anyway, because it's being plucked. The vibration in other axes is probably less pronounced.

[rickaddict]

Jeez! Now I feel like I should put the shoes back on without changing the strings and pay super-close attention just to make sure! Mine wasn't exactly a controlled experiment as I changed strings, probably changed the pickup height, and also changed where I play as removing the shoes allowed me to play over the pickup.

But rest assured...without the shoes, the bass sounds great!

[johnallg]

Its an interesting question whether the shoes make a difference to the pickup's sound. While the shoes may affect the magnetic field, does their removal alter the field significantly enough so that there's a noticeable difference in the sound? John Hall says yes, but Jeff and others who have done A/B testing don't hear a difference. Anyone out there have an opinion?

I would think, without having owned a reissue bass, that most of the string's vibration is back-and-forth over the magnets anyway, because it's being plucked. The vibration in other axes is probably less pronounced.

Actually, the vibration of the string when plucked is very complex. John Hall said helical, and though I haven't used high speed video or any scanning, I believe him. Try plucking the string (E would be the easiest to detect) and bringing your finger up to the vibrating string very slowly from different angles and you will see it hits the string before the finger reaches the plane of the string at rest (this the up/down angles). You will find it equidistant in all planes after the initial pluck.

[deaconblues]

Its an interesting question whether the shoes make a difference to the pickup's sound. While the shoes may affect the magnetic field, does their removal alter the field significantly enough so that there's a noticeable difference in the sound? John Hall says yes, but Jeff and others who have done A/B testing don't hear a difference. Anyone out there have an opinion?

I would think, without having owned a reissue bass, that most of the string's vibration is back-and-forth over the magnets anyway, because it's being plucked. The vibration in other axes is probably less pronounced.

Actually, the vibration of the string when plucked is very complex. John Hall said helical, and though I haven't used high speed video or any scanning, I believe him. Try plucking the string (E would be the easiest to detect) and bringing your finger up to the vibrating string very slowly from different angles and you will see it hits the string before the finger reaches the plane of the string at rest (this the up/down angles). You will find it equidistant in all planes after the initial pluck.

All this talk is giving me RAS for a 4001c64 to try it on! Or even better, an old Combo...

I see what you're talking about regarding string motion. But removing the 'shoes doesn't make much difference soundwise? Weird...

[jps]

All this talk is giving me RAS for a 4001c64 to try it on! Or even better, an old Combo...

I see what you're talking about regarding string motion. But removing the 'shoes doesn't make much difference soundwise? Weird...

If you remove the shoes on an old Combo you will not get much sound from the guitar.

[johnallg]

All this talk is giving me RAS for a 4001c64 to try it on! Or even better, an old Combo...

I see what you're talking about regarding string motion. But removing the 'shoes doesn't make much difference soundwise? Weird...

If you remove the shoes on an old Combo you will not get much sound from the guitar.

Because the shoes are the only magnets for the pickup.

[jps]