Tonal differences - 2 or 3 pups on 300-series Rics

[argonaut05]

Hello, all, new to the forum.

Three years back I purchased a 360/12 and put a 12-string saddle (duh) and scatterwounds on it. I worked with it for about a year but never got comfy with the skinny neck. In late '07 I took the 660/12 plunge (BBR - I've seen some nice flames on 660/12 BBRs here, but I wouldn't trade mine for any of 'em). I then traded the 360/12 for a 360/6 in amberglo and put the scatterwounds on that.

For quite a while, I thought that my luthier (a great guy whom I have no other reasons to mistrust at all) had tampered with the scatterwounds. I like to play heavily overdriven as much as I do clean, and I found little difference in terms of playing overdriven chords on the neck pups between the 360 with the toasters and my Heritage 555 (their superior "knockoff" of an ES-335) with SD-'59s, and, quite honestly, the series of Les Pauls I used to own. As a reference point, I would cite the nasty post-Chuck Berry chordal sound Keith Richards used on "Miss Amanda Jones." Puketrescent mud city! And very surprising with the Ric. I actually have no problem with this for lead lines - it's a great sound, and certainly distinctive with the Ric as opposed to the humbucker guitars - but no versatility, as striking a second string on any of those instruments at those settings is tonal catastrophe. Anyway, I tried the same amp setting and plugged in the 660/12. Same stuff. It's not the toasters, it's the neck pup as a phenom in general. I expected more tonal clarity out of single coils - I haven't had such negative experiences with Fender guitars.

So, my basic question is - how would it affect the tonality of the bass switch settings if I replaced my 360 with a 340 or 370 with scatters? Would it tend to clean up the muddiness to have the middle and neck mixed? I have owned and played several guitars, but never a bass/treble pup setup with three pups (as opposed to the 5-way switching of a Strat). I want to act on this fairly quickly (if I'm going to) due to the dinosauring of the 3-pup option.

[Janglyman]

I have noticed the same thing on my Ricks (mid 60's 450-12 and '88 360-12). The neck p/u always sounds muddy and dark relative to the other 2. The neck p/u just doesn't jangle. Since I 've got it on 2 guitars built years apart, I just assumed this was normal for Ricks. The 450 has toasters and the 360 has hi-gains.

I've tried the Ric-o-sound input, but it makes no diff. Same with adding a compressor. Amp settings don't make any difference either.

Let's talk further.

Janglyman

[JakeK]

The neck pickup-toaster or hi-gain-just doesn't sound that good when I'm rocking out, weither it be Who, Stones, Petty, Kinks, Beatles, whatever- but it does sound nice and jazzy if you blend the blend knob just right.

[argonaut05]

Thanks, Jake, I'll toy with the blend knob a bit more on my 360 and see what difference that makes.

Thanks also for your input, Janglyman. You know, I actually like the neck pickup used clean - not necessarily by itself (although that's what McGuinn did with his 12-string on the RCA sessions of "Eight Miles High" and "Why" to get that dark sound), but the bridge is too tinny without a bit of the neck heft. I do tend to roll up the tone on the neck when playing clean, though.

[JakeK]

You can enhance the bridge pickups tone with the right amount of compression.

[antipodean]

The neck pickup-toaster or hi-gain-just doesn't sound that good when I'm rocking out, weither it be Who, Stones, Petty, Kinks, Beatles, whatever- but it does sound nice and jazzy if you blend the blend knob just right.

Great tip Jake! That blend knob, once you learn how to use it, is one of the great Ric features!

[jdogric12]

I agree with the suggestions regarding the 5th knob. Also try toying with the two volume knobs.

Lastly, what amp are you using? Have you tried messing with those settings? That makes a huge difference for me. I usually do a typicall scoop setting: Low around 7, Mid around 4, High on 10.

[ted_williams]

The middle pickup on a 370, with standard wiring, makes the "up" switch position usable as far as I'm concerned. It adds more mid-range than you can get by balancing in the bridge pickup with the fifth knob. Go here: http://www.myspace.com/tinfoilhelmetmusic, and listen to the opening chords of "The Best Is Yet To Come" for a demonstration. 370WB with toasters.

[britinvasion]

The middle pickup on a 370, with standard wiring, makes the "up" switch position usable as far as I'm concerned. It adds more mid-range than you can get by balancing in the bridge pickup with the fifth knob. Go here: http://www.myspace.com/tinfoilhelmetmusic, and listen to the opening chords of "The Best Is Yet To Come" for a demonstration. 370WB with toasters.

I have found this to be true with my 370FG. I traded my 360MID in for it , for this very reason. But for some reason I have no problem with the way my 360/12 neck pick-up sounds on it own, it just didn't cut it on the 6 string .

[8mileshigher]

Maybe J-Dog could re-post that link, with his little Bach music sampler he did a year or so ago, where he tested three different Ricks with an assortment of either three PUPs, High Gains or Toasters. It was an interesting comparison of the sound of three different Rics, all playing the same tune through the same compressor, amp, set up, etc. I seem to recall they were all 12 string models....

J-Dog is that recording still in your archives vault ?

Rich F.

[still]

I like to play heavily overdriven as much as I do clean...
So, my basic question is - how would it affect the tonality of the bass switch settings if I replaced my 360 with a 340 or 370 with scatters? Would it tend to clean up the muddiness to have the middle and neck mixed?

It might help.

What you're hearing when you play is the total package -- guitar; effect boxes; amp. I find Rics to be very fidgety and very surprising, depending what I plug them into, and how the I twiddle the knobs.

I have convinced myself many times that the Ric neck setting (i.e., switch up) is useless. That applies equally to both the 2- and 3-pickup models. Then I plug into a different amp, or turn a knob on the distortion box, and the sound comes alive. Those "muddy pickups" weren't muddy after all...

That happens to some extent with other guitars (Strats, for example), but never the way it does with Rics. I find it hard to get a REALLY good sound on a Ric -- lots of trial and error -- but totally worth the effort. When the elements come together (the right guitar, the right distortion, the right amp), you get something unique, and uniquely satisfying.