Possible 12 string design upgrades

[Folkie]

Bob,

I've read many complaints on both forums about the narrowness of the Rickenbacker necks. In his instructional DVD "The 12-String Guitar of Roger McGuinn," McGuinn shows many alternate chord voicings for those of us with larger hands. I have one of my own to suggest for the Asus4: Instead of playing the A chord in the usual manner (with your index finger on the D-pair, middle finger on the G-pair, and ring finger on the B-pair) play it with your middle finger on the D-pair, your index on the G-pair, and your ring finger on the B-pair. This allows you to compensate for the narrow neck while using your pinky to play the suspended fourth note. It may feel awkward at first, but you'll get used to it, and then the Byrds' "Feel a Whole Lot Better" will be a cinch.

Robert

[jimk]

Interesting. I use middle finger on the D pair, ring finger on the G pair, and pinky on the B pair. Simply by moving the pinky to the third fret, back to the second fret, or lifting the finger off entirely playing the B pair open, I play the FAWLB riff quite....ummmm handily
JimK

[Folkie]

Jim,

That's a very inventive open chord voicing. I must admit I'd never thought of it until you mentioned it. My alternate fingering feels more natural because that's how I was taught my A chord when I started out on acoustic. Do you play an open G chord with your ring finger on the low E and your pinky on the high E?

Robert

[Ilikewater]

I think I like the wider neck because I don't have to make compromises or buy a dvd to relearn voicings. I don't feel the need to adjust my playing ricks need to be quaint.

[iiipopes]

This thread has been batted around awhile. The two common requests for upgrades are 1) wider neck, to 1.72 or 1.75 instead of 1.62 to 1.69, and the bridge issue.

As far as the wider neck, I agree. I used to love the narrow neck on my 1981 360-12WB FG ckbd. The older I get, the fingers just don't want to do that neck all the time anymore.

As far as the 6 versus 12 saddle bridge question, this issue is actually integral with the strings. If the proper strings are used, then the core stretch on the wound unisons is the same as the plain octaves, so a pair will intonate with the same offset -- with one exception: low E, with both a wound unison and a wound octave.

Here's a bit of trivia: my 12-string, dealing with the older style of strings when new, actually had an offset D saddle. It never worked on the newer strings, wound or flat. So some time ago, I bought some saddle blanks. I fashioned a conventional straight saddle for the D string, and taking the offset as a clue, I fashioned an offset E saddle so the low unison intonates off the back edge of the saddle and the octave string, being wound, with a lesser diameter core, therefore less core stretch, and therefore less offset needed, intonates off the front edge of the saddle. Intonation is now the best it ever has been on that guitar, and I play it more than I ever did, even though my fingers occasionally scuff a note.

So, the two upgrades I would really like to see are the wider neck on the 300-series and a standard 6-saddle bridge with a re-engineered offset low E saddle. That fixes both playability and intonation on arguably one of the most iconic of RIC instruments.

Earvana nut? They don't intonate the low E string properly, either, and one offset for each pair doesn't fix the overall problem, either.

And most of the guys complaining about G strings are using plain G unison strings instead of wound 3rd unison G strings, which requires a different offset of the saddle. A Rick 12 is designed for the wound 3rd G string. If you don't like the thicker gauge of the stock set, D'addario has singles in single number steps all the way from .017. I even still have around some GHS wound .016 Boomers somewhere I ordered specially about twenty years ago.

[jimk]

Jim,
Do you play an open G chord with your ring finger on the low E and your pinky on the high E?

Robert

Yes, I do....sometimes. I'm comfortable with several ways of plying the chord. It's all a matter of what follows the G chord.
JimK

[paologregorio]

I don't worry about the intonation on my guitars much. If something sounds off, I'll check it, but that's rare.

I learned recently (never gave it much thought before) that a lot of intonation issues are due to the consistency of the string winding on wound strings, or consistency of the thickness on plain strings. The way in which the string is manufactured matters.

I'd like the slot through headstock on my 381/12 (sorry purists).

I changed the strings on my 12 a few weeks back employing (almost, anyway, I misread some of the instructions) the Paul W method, though I didn't use tape. Everything went quite smoothly, and though I wasn't able to quite match Paul W's record string changing time (18 minutes and some seconds, yes?), the process went quite smoothly.

I wouldn't mind a whammy bar on my 12 string either (sorry Mr. Hall, it must be from listening to too many Echo and the Bunnymen numbers, and fiddling with my whammy bar-equipped Vox 12 teardrop), because there a frequent times when I reach for a non-existent whammy bar on my 12 for effect. I might have to invest in an Accent; I remember John Hall reporting that the factory tried this and the guitar barely returned to pitch, but I use an extra light 12 string set, and John Biscuti and JDog successfully employed one on a 381/12 for a short time.

A wider neck would be a nice option on the 300 series 12s, but I can play the fatcory neck just fine. The vintage radius plays better than the modern, flat 10" radius for 12s IMO, but they both play nicely IMO. It would be interesting to hear the impressions of the auction winner of the Mocha 360/12 C63 with the 660 neck, but IIRC, he's sticking that one under his bed to sell at some far off future date in hopes of reaping huge profits.

[gibsonlp]

the G pairing is usually the most offending pair

In my experience, like McGuinn's, the low E and A pairs are the most troublesome.

I concur, my 366/12's Low E is horrible without the 12 saddles bridge, I had to remove the spring and take it all the way back, otherwise it will be over a quarter tone sharp on the 12th fret...

[Folkie]

Paul,

I've never had a problem with the narrow neck on my old 330/12 either. I guess my hands are on the small side and I adjusted easily.

As for the 12-saddle bridge, I've never had a need for one. Both my 12-strings intonate fine.

Robert